The Instigator
RXR
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
Tminusfour20
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Abortion Debate

Do you like this debate?NoYes+92
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
RXR
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/17/2015 Category: Economics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 61,149 times Debate No: 71841
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (85)
Votes (1)

 

RXR

Con

Con: Against Abortion
Pro: For Abortion

My oppenent will go first and defend his views on abortion staying legal...

Tminusfour20

Pro

I look forward to this debate.

There are a few blurred lines when it comes to the topic of abortion primarily when the exact moment a fetus, becomes a "live human being".

A few points that I would like to throw out is that fetuses have no consciousness and do not feel pain prior to 20 weeks. I agree that a fetus should not be aborted late in it's development as it would be overall better to birth the child prematurely and out them up for adoption.

But, I will say that a fetus is not a functioning and productive member of society, it does not have a social security number nor can it survive on it's own without it's host. Not all these are needed to be considered human or even important at all but the difference that many forget to realize with abortion is the decision of the woman. Even animals are more beneficial to my life than unborn fetuses.

As a woman if I decide I do not wish to be pregnant, an unborn pre human with no consciousness opinion or even a thought in the world should have the ability to stop that. If a termination of the fetus results in her wishes to no longer be pregnant that is her complete choice.

If you were a leach and had the same level of functionality and consciousness as a fetus and you had to necessarily be attached to me to stay alive whether I put you there or not I have the right to remove you from the resource I call my body. It would make the same level of difference to you as if your future great great grand kids were to blow up spontaneously (pretty much no difference at all as you would be long dead and free of consciousness to perceive anything around you.)

Child sacrifice is incomparable and has roots in outlandish complex irrational belief systems. Those children were also alive independently and were functioning members of society. Name one entire culture that routinely sacrifices thier already born children in today's world. We are not still living in the middle ages.

Making this illegal wouldn't stop the act of abortion, it would just make it much harder for women with no other option to get one. It would force pregnant rape victims to suffer quietly or suffering mothers in deep poverty to find unsafe dangerous alternative options.

From an emotional perspective I get it but it isn't rational to cut off a very much needed procedure for millions of women around the world because you think it's wrong. You may never know their life or circumstances but if you are that avid about it, just privately refrain from aborting your own children and allow the rest of us to freely exercise our bodily rights.

Back to you
Debate Round No. 1
RXR

Con

Let's clear a few things, a fetus is a 'living human being' because it originally was created from human parents and we know it's alive because it is growing. If it was not alive, then an abortion is not neccasary. Also there are countless biologists that conclude that a fetus is the beginning of human life. For example, Keith L. Moore says in his book of embryology, quoted 'This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being.'

Yes your correct on a fetus not having a consiousness or the ability of pain but does it make any less humane to kill them ? And by the way, if you can terminate a fetus for not having consiousness, can you terminate a person in a coma ? People in comas have no sense of there surroundings.

You say that animals are more beneficial than unborn human beings but animals will never benefit society by not having jobs or a family, mean while a fetus can have a job/family.

Yes it is true that making abortion illegal won't stop abortion but so is murder. Murder is illegal but some people still commit murder. And abortion and rape only effects about 0.05% people, that is a very small group of people. But even if a rape victim does an legal abortion she will suffer from depression and possibely commit suicide.

India and China still have a culture of female infanticide and kill their unborn female children. Just to name a few.
http://www.domesticviolenceservices.com...

Abortion is wrong because scientificaly a fetus is a human being and should recieve basic human rights and be protected. Abortion just discriminates the unborn and shows that human life is disposable just for a few hundred dollars. And it isn't your body, it just lives in it.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

Tminusfour20

Pro

"You say that animals are more beneficial than unborn human beings but animals will never benefit society by not having jobs or a family, mean while a fetus can have a job/family."

I currently have a guard dog at home who has both a family and a specific job within my household. Seeing eye dogs, police dogs, milk and beef cows provide resources to mothers with unborn babies so that isn't exactly true.

"India and China still have a culture of female infanticide and kill their unborn female children. Just to name a few."

Chinese infanticide and infanticide in no shape or form is acceptable. I honestly feel that every situation should be handled uniquely and it wouldn't be right to lump every single situation and scenario that may result in an abortion as wrong and inexcusable. China has over a billion while we are just over 300 million. Their population and resources have pushed them toward infanticide tendencies. Is it right? No, but that is not the picture if abortion that people in America hold.


"But even if a rape victim does an legal abortion she will suffer from depression and possibly commit suicide. "

I acknowledge your point that rape and abortion affects only a small percentage of Americans. The true question I have is how much do abortions effect Americans at all as a process. When a young woman decides to have an abortion for whatever reason how does that effect people? Her parents will be temporarily disappointed , the girl may be emotionally and physically scarred but it doesn't effect the community, 10 women in your neighborhood can have an abortion and it will never effect you as a person specifically or me or anyone outside of their personal circle. How many people do you personally know that have had abortions that have affected you and the community around them as a whole?


" if you can terminate a fetus for not having consciousness, can you terminate a person in a coma ?"

Coma patients brain dead patients and paralyzed patients can all get pregnant and conceive and give birth to a child. Pre humans have no attachment no connections outside of parents no impact on the world or anything or anyone. Like I said above all situations need to be judged uniquely before lumping in assisted death for coma and brain death patients as the significance of each is not universal.


"Abortion is wrong because scientifically a fetus is a human being and should receive basic human rights and be protected."

You are basically agreeing it is OK to violate the rights of independently living human beings to grant rights to pre-humans that require the body of another human being to survive. Basic human rights can be given to the unborn when they are a capable of doing basic human functions on their own without infringing upon the rights of the host.


Birth and human life is insanely persistent. There are more people being born than dying so literally 100s of babies can be born around the worlds in the time it takes one teen in Utah to get to the abortion clinic in her Honda. Human life is definitely precious, especially seeing how abundant it is around you and I whether we fight it or not it will persist till the end. Its like taking an option and right from everyone for the sake of a virtually insignificant event that happens plenty of times daily. The born will provide and compensate for the unborn as it always has and the only thing that the unborn will owe is gratitude.


Back to you !
Debate Round No. 2
RXR

Con

'I currently have a guard dog at home who has both a family and a specific job within my household. Seeing eye dogs, police dogs, milk and beef cows provide resources to mothers with unborn babies so that isn't '

Comparing cattle to a unborn human being is illogical, yes your right on cows providing milk and guard dogs provide protection. But a human life triumphs any animal. That unborn human could have impacted society in a helpful manner. Animals can easily be replaced while an unborn human can not.

'Chinese infanticide and infanticide in no shape or form is acceptable. I honestly feel that every situation should be handled uniquely and it wouldn't be right to lump every single situation and scenario that may result in an abortion as wrong and inexcusable. China has over a billion while we are just over 300 million. Their population and resources have pushed them toward infanticide tendencies. Is it right? No, but that is not the picture if abortion that people in America hold. '

Chinese infanticide is not acceptable because it kills born females and causes an unbalanced ratio between females and males currently living in China. There are better options and less violent ones than infantcide. Overpopulation is a problem but families don't have to resort to killing their own children just for being female.


'I acknowledge your point that rape and abortion affects only a small percentage of Americans. The true question I have is how much do abortions effect Americans at all as a process. When a young woman decides to have an abortion for whatever reason how does that effect people? Her parents will be temporarily disappointed , the girl may be emotionally and physically scarred but it doesn't effect the community, 10 women in your neighborhood can have an abortion and it will never effect you as a person specifically or me or anyone outside of their personal circle. How many people do you personally know that have had abortions that have affected you and the community around them as a whole? '

Abortion doesn't affect other people, it affects the fetus. Abortion discriminates the unborn and considers a fetus disposable human life. Abortion kills the most helpless and innocent human beings.

'You are basically agreeing it is OK to violate the rights of independently living human beings to grant rights to pre-humans that require the body of another human being to survive. Basic human rights can be given to the unborn when they are a capable of doing basic human functions on their own without infringing upon the rights of the host. '

Human life > Rights

'Coma patients brain dead patients and paralyzed patients can all get pregnant and conceive and give birth to a child. Pre humans have no attachment no connections outside of parents no impact on the world or anything or anyone. Like I said above all situations need to be judged uniquely before lumping in assisted death for coma and brain death patients as the significance of each is not universal.'

If you give it a chance it will impact the world. But abortion terminates the chance of a fetus having a chance at life.

In conclusion: Abortion kills unborn human beings and is discrimination. Thus should be abolished


Tminusfour20

Pro

"Comparing cattle to a unborn human being is illogical, yes your right on cows providing milk and guard dogs provide protection. But a human life triumphs any animal. That unborn human could have impacted society in a helpful manner. Animals can easily be replaced while an unborn human can not. "

It is illogical to compare a 35 year old man to an unborn fetus. An unborn human can be replaced once aborted by sex then following conception.

"Overpopulation is a problem but families don't have to resort to killing their own children just for being female."

If you read my point above I am not in support of Chinese infanticide or any infanticide but that and abortion are two different issues and we are talking about two entirely different cultures. Abortion is not a real issue in the life of Americans right now.

"Abortion doesn't affect other people, it affects the fetus. Abortion discriminates the unborn and considers a fetus disposable human life. Abortion kills the most helpless and innocent human beings. "

The fetus doesn't have the capacity to care or understand this concept as of yet. Abortion is to deal with a current existing issue. The life and concerns of a fetus are irrelevant and there is no way to say that a world without abortions would be definitely better than a world without one. The victim in this case is essentially unaware or unaffected by abortion its consciousness remains the same before and after the abortion. You are arguing from an emotional perspective when you and I will never be pregnant or women capable of giving an inside viewpoint.

"Human life > Rights"

Why not take away the rights of someone in a coma or brain dead and force them to be baby factories through artificial insemination then. both are equally important but there must be a balance.

"If you give it a chance it will impact the world. But abortion terminates the chance of a fetus having a chance at life."

There is no way to prove that all terminated fetuses would have indefinitely had a positive impact or any impact at all on the world. there have been millions of miscarriages and abortions throughout our histories timeliness and it was those that survived who impacted the world. There will be 1000s of births for every abortion I cannot describe to you how insignificant effect of terminating one pregnancy for a legitimate reason has on the world as a whole. That one baby who didn't make it will be surpassed by millions of babies who will as it has always been through evolutionary history.

Please give evidence of negative correlations with abortions and ....anything.


Debate Round No. 3
RXR

Con

'It is illogical to compare a 35 year old man to an unborn fetus. An unborn human can be replaced once aborted by sex then following conception. '

A fetus can't be replaced because it's own dna is unlike any other human being.

' If you read my point above I am not in support of Chinese infanticide or any infanticide but that and abortion are two different issues and we are talking about two entirely different cultures. Abortion is not a real issue in the life of Americans right now. '

But you just said 'Chinese infanticide and infanticide in no shape or form is acceptable.' which means you are in support of infantcide.

'There is no way to prove that all terminated fetuses would have indefinitely had a positive impact or any impact at all on the world. there have been millions of miscarriages and abortions throughout our histories timeliness and it was those that survived who impacted the world. There will be 1000s of births for every abortion I cannot describe to you how insignificant effect of terminating one pregnancy for a legitimate reason has on the world as a whole. That one baby who didn't make it will be surpassed by millions of babies who will as it has always been through evolutionary history. '

I never said that all fetuses will have some sort of positive impact for society. I said some of them.

'Why not take away the rights of someone in a coma or brain dead and force them to be baby factories through artificial insemination then. both are equally important but there must be a balance. '

Because you did not use their consent for using their reproductive organs. While when a woman who has sex chooses a chance to be pregnant. A person in a coma does not.

'Please give evidence of negative correlations with abortions and ....anything.'

depression, suicide, infertility, inflamation. etc. People who choose abortion have 10 times higher depression rate. and worst of all kills an unborn human being

Now answer my question, if a fetus is not a human being than what is it ?

Tminusfour20

Pro

"But you just said 'Chinese infanticide and infanticide in no shape or form is acceptable.' which means you are in support of infanticide"

If I say it is not acceptable in any shape or form how does that mean I support it?

"Because you did not use their consent for using their reproductive organs. While when a woman who has sex chooses a chance to be pregnant. A person in a coma does not."

Agreeing to have sex is not the same as agreeing to be pregnant, both are choices.

"depression, suicide, infertility, inflammation. etc. People who choose abortion have 10 times higher depression rate. and worst of all kills an unborn human being"

I agree those are potential impacts that abortion can have on an individual but again that doesn't effect society as a whole. Abortions do not increase the risk of depression, suicide,and inflammation for an entire community only for the individual that CHOOSES that option for themselves.


I will answer your question with this question. If I give you an egg to eat for breakfast, will you then say to someone else I gave you chicken for breakfast? 2 different categories of the same kind. They need to be dealt with uniquely.
Debate Round No. 4
RXR

Con

If I say it is not acceptable in any shape or form how does that mean I support it?

'infanticide in no shape or form is acceptable' <--- that means you do support it. I don't know if it is a typo or not.

'I agree those are potential impacts that abortion can have on an individual but again that doesn't effect society as a whole. Abortions do not increase the risk of depression, suicide,and inflammation for an entire community only for the individual that CHOOSES that option for themselves. '

It doesn't need to affect whole communities to be dangerous. Abortion is not only harmful to the fetus, it is also harmful to women's physical and mental image

-http://www.rachelsvineyard.org...

-http://www.afterabortion.com...

'I will answer your question with this question. If I give you an egg to eat for breakfast, will you then say to someone else I gave you chicken for breakfast? 2 different categories of the same kind. They need to be dealt with uniquely.'

A chicken and a fetus are both different species, so you can't make an analogy of the two
Tminusfour20

Pro

The first article is a religious publication from 1994. When they created the manual vacuum and chemical abortion methods that people in 21st century medicine actually use. These new methods are also safer for the mother and painless for the fetus. I know women who are virtually unaffected by having an abortion done as well as women who were saddened by it but as I've stated before women's physical and mental image is not guaranteed to be altered by abortion. It is more of a side effect of abortion than a guaranteed symptom of post abortion.


Fetuses and humans are in two different categories as eggs and chickens are. One comes as a result of the other and must be treated that way.

Conclusion: Abortion is not a legitimate societal issue. Our culture has the resources and options to deal with pregnancy as well as the termination of a pregnancy. The vast majority typically go unaffected by abortion. Fetuses are effected but subsequently, that effect on fetuses does not result in an effect on us. It is a woman's choice to terminate her pregnancy even if that results in the loss of a fetus, that is her right. A woman that decides to choose abortion, accepts the potential risks and side effects that come with it just like any other medical procedure. Human life rapidly persists with thousands of births for every abortion, making a legitimate termination of one pregnancy insignificant in the light of the millions that continuously occur.

I conclude that my opponent and I will never be pregnant or ever know the pressure placed on a pregnant woman when dealing the option of abortion giving us no right to judge their situation.


Vote Pro. Keep Abortion Legal.
Debate Round No. 5
85 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 11 through 20 records.
Posted by Philip_McCormick 2 years ago
Philip_McCormick
"1. It is the mother's decision that matters, About the young life that she has conceived within herself. "

If you acknowledge that the baby is human life (as you do in point 3), This argument doesn't hold. Can a 50 year old mother murder her 25 year old son, Because the son was a life that she conceived?

"2. A process or surgery like abortion has been regulated and been actively carried out around the world in so many household mainly due to its popularity and benefits and public's interest, Else it would have been banned and not be in market so openly. "

Popular belief does not govern morals. If the popular belief in Nazi Germany was to kill Jews does that mean it is ok? If the popular view of Early America was that slavery was ok, Does that mean that slavery is ok?
Posted by Brawny 2 years ago
Brawny
Being a woman, I completely support the idea of abortion. The few reasons of mine are:
1. It is the mother's decision that matters, About the young life that she has conceived within herself.
2. A process or surgery like abortion has been regulated and been actively carried out around the world in so many household mainly due to its popularity and benefits and public's interest, Else it would have been banned and not be in market so openly.
3. Though abortion is literally taking a life but when it's for a valid purpose I think it should be allowed to be carried out. It is so because you don't want a child to be born without the consent and support of family members and then the child to end up in the adoption house or sometimes even worse.
4. It should be supported also because technology has helped us see the future product and when something's wrong with the foetus you don't want it to be out in the world and be a sufferer. It might sound harsh but when reality kicks in between everything, It's very disappointing.
5. I believe that a woman should be given the complete freedom of abortion because it's a bodily process happening to her and if she's accepting it, So you should too.
Posted by 1leroy 2 years ago
1leroy
I agree with Lexmark245 on everything except killing the baby if the mother was raped. Why should the baby be punished with death (capital punishment) if a man breaks the law and rapes a woman?
I would like all you pro-abortion people to finish this question.

It is okay to kill an unborn baby when. . .
Posted by Lexmark245 2 years ago
Lexmark245
The vast majority of the people in this comment section that are pro abortion seem to be uneducated, And simply latch onto the pro abortion party because "WOMENS RIGHTS! "

Anyone who says that a woman has every right to do what she wants with her own body is misguided. You think that this is the right way to think but you're wrong, Because in the case of abortion, It's not just the womans body, We are talking about another human life. That woman chose to have sex, And regardless of whether she took every precaution, Sex will always carry a risk of pregnancy. (Pregnancy from rape is irrelevant to this conversation, As I believe that abortions in the case of rape should be permitted) So, If a woman decides to have sex and ends up with an unwanted pregnancy, That is her own damn fault and she has to deal with the consequences. She should not be allowed to kill a child simply because it is inconvenient to her.

Saying that its okay to kill a fetus simply because "it can't survive on its own" is simply ridiculous. Even after the child is born, It cannot survive on it's own either. So why the hell would it be okay to kill one and not the other?

Women who are pro abortion should just be honest. You want to kill babies because it is convenient to you.
Posted by 1leroy 2 years ago
1leroy
The baby inside the mother is growing and nothing that isn't alive doesn't grow.
Posted by andresjinesta 2 years ago
andresjinesta
I think abortion is a really controversial topic to talk about
And every person has his own thought about it, So, By making this people should listen to others" points of view, Respect them, And do not create more controversy, But then, This is kind of hard.
Anyway, I have an opinion too, And I think that abortion should be allowed, But in especial cases, I mean, Some girls do not want to have their babies, And some times they get pregnant because of a rape or carelessness when having sex. So I think they are totally free of doing whatever they want with their babies. But sometimes, They wait until the fetus is grown, And I think it would be unfair to take his life away, So, It depends on the purpose of doing it and how things have been for the woman and her actual situation.
Posted by anc2006 2 years ago
anc2006
I think abortion should be legal since there are overpopulation, And since there will be cloning afterwards, Making life still stable. If you think this is cruel, Then stop eating anything except pure chemical powders and nothing else, Because food and plants being eaten is also harmful to the animals that we can eat.
Posted by lainva 2 years ago
lainva
@croweupc1

I'm glad to hear that you're not extremely excited about abortion like many other pro-abortion people. I'll be honest, That I do believe abortion is necessary when the life of the baby and child or at risk. Specifically I'm referring to when the baby develops in the mother's Fallopian tube. In this case, There's a guarantee the baby an mother will die once the baby begins to grow. This is a case of an abortion procedure I would be "pro" for. And, Yes, The baby is growing within the mother and relies on her for survival. But since even this does not mean that the baby is the same life/body as the mother, It is a separate life and therefore deserves a right to live because no one should govern whether one life is greater than the other. Yes, I believe hard decisions can have the greatest positive outcome. But if that hard decision is terminating a baby whose existence was not their fault, (excluding all medical health issues that would require the death of the baby for the mother to live) then I am against it. Also, The percentage of babies aborted because of rape is veerrryy low. So low that I feel it would be ridiculous to base the foundation of this argument on 1% or less. I also believe that just because some kids have a rough life, Doesn't mean that it would be a valid reason to end its life in the womb. That's such a meaningless excuse and I absolutely hate it when people use the "potential hard life" argument. They deserve a chance is all I'm saying in regards to that. I care about the quality of life. But there can be no quality if there is no quantity
Posted by Dr.Franklin 2 years ago
Dr.Franklin
this thread is still active
Posted by croweupc 2 years ago
croweupc
@lainva

First, I hate the idea of abortion. To be clear, I would not want that to be the first option or only option. My point about hypocrisy is giving priority to an undeveloped fetus over the fully developed person who"s body is being used to sustain life. This is the same as life support. Sometimes hard decisions are made for the greater good. Plus, We don"t know all of the circumstances leading up to that decision. If a girl is raped, She didn"t ask to be pregnant, And her body is her choice. Forcing people to full term only creates pain for molested girls or suffering for children being raised by parents who didn"t want them. You seem more concerned about life than about the quality of life. You say you care about life, But there are children living in a hell you cannot even imagine. This issue is way deeper than just should a baby exist.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Anonymous 6 years ago
RXRTminusfour20Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Con countered Pro's arguments well and efficiently. The problem with this debate is the pure truism to it. Abortion is bad and abortion denies the rights to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.