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The Instigator
anc2006
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Kaiser_Wilhelm-II
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Abortion should be legal

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/7/2019 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,179 times Debate No: 123162
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (48)
Votes (0)

 

anc2006

Pro

Because the world is overpopulated, And there is no need for life to exist, Thus abortion is indeed a solution and a remedy after irresponsible intercourse.
Kaiser_Wilhelm-II

Con

If women become pregnant, They should accept the responsibility that comes with producing a child. Your idea that to control overpopulation we need to murder babies is morally unacceptable, It could be compared to murdering people. Instead of killing, We should teach couples to have responsible sex, Abortion should only be permitted if the mothers life is in danger or she was raped (in my opinion). "On the question of limiting population: As you know, The Japanese have been doing it rather vigorously, Through abortion, Which I think would be repugnant to all Americans" - John F. Kennedy, December 1959. Not only this, But it causes Mothers do undergo psychological damage because of Abortions, The Scandinavian Journal of Public Health showed that "Young adult women who undergo. . . Abortion may be at increased risk for subsequent depression. " BMC Medicine also found that Woman that go through Abortion suffer "significantly higher" anxiety scores, The Southern Medical Journal found that more than 173, 000 American women who aborted were 154% more likely to commit suicide. The British Medical Journal also found that the annual suicide rate amongst women who had an abortion were 34. 7 per 100, 000, Compared with a mean rate of 11. 3 per 100, 000. A Journal of Social and Clinical Psychology study of men whose partners had abortions found that 51. 6% of the men reported regret, 45. 2% felt sadness, And 25. 8% experienced depression.

Fetuses feel pain during the abortion procedure, And this is a proven fact. Maureen Condic, PhD, Associate Professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy and Adjunct Associate Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Utah School of Medicine, Explains that the "most primitive response to pain, The spinal reflex, " is developed by eight weeks gestation, And adds that "There is universal agreement that pain is detected by the fetus in the first trimester. " According to Kanwaljeet J. S. Anand, MBBS, DPhil, Professor of Pediatrics, Anesthesiology and Neurobiology at the University of Tennessee Health Science Center, "If the fetus is beyond 20 weeks of gestation, I would assume that there will be pain caused to the fetus. And I believe it will be severe and excruciating pain. " Even Bernard N. Nathanson, MD, The late abortion doctor who renounced his earlier work and became a pro-life activist, Stated that when an abortion is performed on a 12-week-old fetus, "We see [in an ultrasound image] the child's mouth open in a silent scream. . . This is the silent scream of a child threatened imminently with extinction. "
Debate Round No. 1
anc2006

Pro

claim1: Not everybody, Including the women who actually got pregnant by doing irresponsible sex. (https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=-AsofoVl0GA this is a real story, Or something based on a real story) Even girls who got pregnant as early as 12-13 wouldn't abort. They don't have a need to. Only a few out of the few would abort their babies.

claim2: Abortion is not murder. The baby aborted doesn't even have an identity, Nor that he/she will have a great great impact(let's say if Edison is being aborted by his mother, Then some of his inventions will presumably still be replaced by Tesla's system, And others' as well). Without somebody, The world can still operate. Even if Stalin and Washington didn't exist, The earth would still adapt on its own using its own way.

If meat-eating is legal, Then abortion too, Consider all lives weighs. And no, It is not murder, Consider a human's personhood comes first at when it has an actual identity. If abortion is illegal, Then animal slaughtering should be too.

Refute1: Abortion is selfish

No it is not more selfish. The fact is, Even with no one on earth, The planet can still exist. Now abortion isn't losing anything important(unless there is as future telling machine that tells the baby will be the greatest thing ever after, Thus make the mother not abort). Human life is disposable indeed in the eyes of the greater nature, But it may not be in the eyes of the US government just because they are selfish and they want you to work in the country(the same reason why the US government doesn't like gamers, Because they aren't doing any good for them) Abortion is not good for them, But in reality in the greater nature it is normal. Abortion is not more selfish than the law that aborts the abortion-is-legal bill.

Refute2: We should be responsible for pregnancy

Oh yeah? Don't get anything wrong on the final exam, Don't make any mistake on your job, Don't lose a tournament in RoboWars! The reason this claim is false is because accidents may not be avoidable at some times. If you aborted then it is a mistake, And it happens. Everybody makes mistakes, And it weighs nothing to the society than to the person itself. It is really a bs move to put in jail for that.

And if there is too much people, The country will allow abortion. China did this a few decades ago.

Refute3: there will be less people

Unless all people stop doing sex or all of them aborts, It is still tolerable. People aren't running short at this stage.

Refute4: fetus feels pain

Everybody feels pain when going out of mother's vagina, And you can't say the same thing caused death has more damage to himself than the same thing that just did some light damage. If you cut his arm open and he died, You are still doing the same thing than cutting another man's arm open and he survived. Putting the baby out for death is the same with to give birth to a baby.

There are also babies who died after birth, And you can't blame the mother for that.

And pain exists in many ways. You can't just shut the school system down because the student are committing suicide over the hard courses.

Refute5:Women are suffering from psychological pain

Oh yeah, Why? Maybe they didn't start a business earlier and they felt the same thing, And you can't just put someone in jail because they got no job. You can't just say it is putting pain in it thus it should be illegal. Car crash caused 40, 000 deaths per year, And cars are still in production.

one may argue that cars and schools have a better use, But then abortion may ease one's problems by simply disposing the baby down. The baby doesn't even have an identity and it isn't going to do anything humanity can't replace elsewhere.
Kaiser_Wilhelm-II

Con

Thanks for responding!

I couldn't check your first claims video as the link did not work. I don't see your point in saying that most people wouldn't abort, Later in your clam you compare cars to abortions so I am going to do a comparison myself, Murder is pretty unlikely and most people wouldn't commit murder, That doesn't mean it should be legal, Just cause something is unlikely doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to prevent it.

Abortion IS murder, Here is a quote from the US constitution ". . . They are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, That among these are Life, Liberty, And the Pursuit of Happiness. . . " The Constitution gives people the right to life, Something that Abortion does not give, I also see that you compare a life to achievements made by that person, But you seem to forget about things that might not be replaced, If your mother was aborted, You wouldn't be born and everything you have done in this world would never have happened. You should hold a human life as sacred and protect it. Also don't compare a life of a pig to a life of a human, Its disgusting to put a cow on the same level as a human being.
"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish. "
R13; Mother Theresa of Calcutta

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born. "
R13; Ronald Reagan
I don't understand what you mean, Are you saying that its not selfish to end another's life, A person who did not even get a chance at life, You say that "Abortion isn't losing anything important" clearly meaning you say that a babies life is not important, You even say that "Human life is disposable" which is just down right horrible, A life is a life and you should take its very existence away from it because it is inconvenient to yourself.

You SHOULD be responsible for your pregnancy. First thing, You compare grades on a test to a child's life which is like comparing littering to rape. Second, A mistake does not give you the right to do something messed up example: I accidentally murdered someone, But I won't be punished because its an accident, When you fail a test, You have to own up to that and deal with your bad grade, If you mess up at work, Then there will be consequences, The boss won't forgive you cause its an accident, Losing a tournament at RoboWars makes you deal with defeat, You must deal with you mistakes and overcome them. Also because China used abortions to control its population does not mean its right or it should be implemented across the world, I am going to use this quote again "On the question of limiting population: As you know, The Japanese have been doing it rather vigorously, Through abortion, Which I think would be repugnant to all Americans" - John F. Kennedy, December 1959

Please give evidence that we feel pain in the mothers vagina next time. But if we do, Its much better than killing it, The pain would be short, It will suck, But it's necessary, Unlike abortion, Same with death, It is inevitable. Babies dying before birth is bad but we can only do so much to prevent that, I don't see how what you are saying is proving your point either. Pain does exist, And pain really does suck, But pains like stubbing your toe or falling on the floor are under your control, Pain does exist but that doesn't mean we should go causing unnecessary pain, Just cause murder exists doesn't mean we should go murdering.

It's horrible that so much people die from car crashes, But these things happen, There will always be stuff like that, As bad as it is. But the difference is that we try to stop car crashes and we try to stop unemployed, Because they lead to suffering, But abortions aren't being stoped, And we should try and stop them, As they are easily reachable, Unlike stoping car crashes. Also just because abortion may ease ones problems doesn't mean it is good, We should always look for ways to benefit ourselves, And others, But if we want to push ourselves forward, We should never push others back. "The baby doesn't even have an identity and it isn't going to do anything humanity can't replace elsewhere. " so if something is not benefiting humanity then it should be killed, I don't think thats right, And I hope you don't think thats right either. "Life without caution is like a car without brake. "
R13; Bamigboye Olurotimi

"I feel the greatest destroyer of peace today is 'Abortion', Because it is a war against the child. . . A direct killing of the innocent child, 'Murder' by the mother herself. . . And if we can accept that a mother can kill even her own child, How can we tell other people not to kill one another? How do we persuade a woman not to have an abortion? As always, We must persuade her with love. . . And we remind ourselves that love means to be willing to give until it hurts. . . "
R13; Mother Teresa

"[I]t seems to me as clear as daylight that abortion would be a crime. "
R13; Mahatma Gandhi, All Men are Brothers: Autobiographical Reflections

"Adoption was such a positive alternative to abortion, A way to save one life and brighten two more: those of the adoptive parents. "
R13; George W. Bush, Decision Points

"More than a decade ago, A Supreme Court decision literally wiped off the books of fifty states statutes protecting the rights of unborn children. Abortion on demand now takes the lives of up to 1. 5 million unborn children a year. Human life legislation ending this tragedy will some day pass the Congress, And you and I must never rest until it does. Unless and until it can be proven that the unborn child is not a living entity, Then its right to life, Liberty, And the pursuit of happiness must be protected. "
R13; Ronald Reagan

"Abortion is. . .
One more heart that will never beat again.
Two more eyes that will never see light.
Two more hands that will never touch or feel.
Two more legs that will never run for miles.
Two more lips that will never speak a word.
One more mouth that will never know a smile. "
R13; Queen Susan the Gentle's friend

"Anyone who celebrates or endorses abortion but then pretends to recoil at any other form of murder is lying. "
R13; Matt Walsh, The Unholy Trinity: Blocking the Left's Assault on Life, Marriage, And Gender

"You mass slaughter your own children and call it 'reproductive freedom'. "
R13; Steve Deace, A Nefarious Plot

"Abortion is when a baby gets the death penalty for the behavior of someone else. "
R13; Unknown

"We cannot diminish the value of one category of human life--the unborn--without diminishing the value of all human life. "
R13; Ronald Reagan, Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation

"Life is a civil right. Abortion is a civil wrong. "
R13; Alveda C. King

"For abortion opponents believe that a class of persons are being killed by such methods as dismemberment, Suffocation, And burning, And thus are more than perplexed to be told that they don't have to participate in the killings if they don't want to. Saying 'If you don't like abortion, Don't have one. ' to those opposed to abortion is similar to telling abolitionists not to own slaves if they don't like slavery. "
R13; Francis J. Beckwith, Relativism: Feet Firmly Planted in Mid-Air

"Life is the great civil rights issue of our day"
R13; Jack Cashill

"The anti-life proves only one thing: that you can get away with the most extraordinary offenses to morality and truth in this country if you'll just get yourself called Reverend. People like that should be out in the street, Shouting and hollering with a cardboard sign and selling pencils from a cup. "
R13; Christopher Hitchens

"The rights of children as individuals begin while yet the remain the fetus. . . I hold abortion to be just as much murder as the killing of a person after birth is murder. "
R13; Victoria Claflin Woodhull

"We must not be surprised when we hear of murders, Killings, Of wars, Or of hatred. . . If a mother can kill her own child, What is left but for us to kill each other? "
R13; Mother Teresa
Debate Round No. 2
anc2006

Pro

Ah, I see what you did, Barely speak for yourself but only for the famous quotes that favors your side. I will refute them.

"Abortion IS murder, "

No. The being inside does not have sentience and soul as the braincells of the subjects are barely complete for anything. If abortion counts as murder, Then you might as well resurrect the criminals because according to your claim execution is also a crime.

You might say that execution is for the greater good. Abortion is for the mother's good. Disposing a non-sentient being while lightening one's own life is good. Of course it is selfish, But restricting the choice is even more selfish consider you are limiting a rational choice. The baby won't do anything that humanity wouldn't replace at all.

It is not murder. It has no soul nor identity. It is like disposing a plate of food down the garbage.

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born. "

Humans doesn't need to exist. If trump isn't born at all then hillary will take its place. Unless everybody will do something that no one, Out of all history and future can do, Abortion is still OK. And if that, Prostitutes should be executed immediately because they don't do sex for reproduction, Even if this is why they are alive. No one "should" be born. Everybody is a chance or what. The fact is one ejaculation releases millions of sperm cells, And only one corresponds to you. No one is destined to be born. You see the predictions made by mayas only predicts that this person in the future will do this and do that and harm or save the world, But they didn't state who this will be, Or his entire genetics being pre-written.

"Pain does exist but that doesn't mean we should go causing unnecessary pain"

a little pain for eternal joy. The whole reason why you are aborting the child is because you don't want it. That's all.

"Abortion is. . .
One more heart that will never beat again.
Two more eyes that will never see light.
Two more hands that will never touch or feel.
Two more legs that will never run for miles.
Two more lips that will never speak a word.
One more mouth that will never know a smile. "

Seeing none of the baby's organs are developed enough, And there are disabled people in all body parts, This isn't a problem. These requirements are not necessary as there are disabilities. Also, What is wrong for disposing a baby when it can do nothing at all?

"I feel the greatest destroyer of peace today is 'Abortion', Because it is a war against the child"

no. If abortion doesn't exist we would have 12M people. No it is not a war against a child because it has no sentience as its brain can generate barely anything. Putting the baby into an eternal sleep is nothing. Abortion itself shouldn't be illegal but if there are people in the family that strongly disagrees then it can be illegal. If all people allows it it shouldn't.

"You mass slaughter your own children and call it 'reproductive freedom'"

There are Ace people who never had sex. And you'd illegalize that? Disposing a slab of meat isn't something out of freedom. And a baby is a slab of meat at this stage. It can do nothing more. We don't really need the baby, And it is not going to do something irreplaceable in life. Technically everybody can be aborted. It is just their parents didn't do it.

"Abortion is when a baby gets the death penalty for the behavior of someone else. "

Not penalty. Their life barely started. Let's say that you got fired on the first day on job, And because of that, It wouldn't matter to your financial support. Abortion is like that: he can't remember the mom, Crawl out of the box and murder the mom alive.

" If a mother can kill her own child, What is left but for us to kill each other"

I can die right now and leave the debate blank. I don't do that because I don't want to do it. We can simply kill each other. We just don't want to do it. We can perfectly do that. But I don't want to commit murder, Because it is a waste of energy. Technically removing humans from the earth is actually better for the environment, Just saying. We can kill, Just no need to.
Kaiser_Wilhelm-II

Con

Ya, I was tired so I let more qualified people to argue for me =/

"might as well resurrect the criminals because according to your claim execution is also a crime. "
Although this is off topic, Criminals caused harm intentionally to others, If someone killed someone, It would disgrace the person killed and devalue human life. Fetuses don't intentionally cause harm, Killing fetuses because they are a inconvenience would devalue human life, Has it states that Human Life can be let go if it causes irritation to another, Which is messed up.

"Abortion is for the mother's good"
If it brings happiness to a mother to bring death upon her own baby, Then there is something wrong. I understand that the mother might not want to raise a child, But killing it is not the right choice. Also "The baby won't do anything that humanity wouldn't replace at all. " that is not an excuse, If someone does not benefit society, Then that is no justification to kill him.

"Humans doesn't need to exist. "
Ya, We don't need to exist, Nothing *needs* to exist, But we *do* exist and we should preserve ourselves. Also your example is horrible, "If Trump isn't born at all then Hillary will take its place" first you refer to Trump as an it =/ but second you seem to not realize that Trump and Hillary are fundamentally different, And the world would be greatly impacted by this. It isn't an equal trade, All people are different and if someone is gone, The world will be shaped in a much different way.

"a little pain for eternal joy"
see the The British Medical Journal's study on annual suicide rates among woman who went through an abortion

"Also, What is wrong for disposing a baby when it can do nothing at all? "
What is wrong with killing completely paralyzed people because they can do nothing at all? That is no excuse, I have said this several times but killing someone because they don't do anything is horrible (for obvious reasons)

"Abortion itself shouldn't be illegal but if there are people in the family that strongly disagrees then it can be illegal. "
What you said literally defies everything you said previously "it shouldn't be illegal, But if some people strongly disagree with it then it can be illegal. " I can understand what you mean, But thats like saying that if you don't like crime then don't do it.

"not a war against a child because it has no sentience as its brain can generate barely anything. "
First, Fetuses are the second stage of human life. Second, Just because someone doesnt think very much doesnt mean that you have the right to kill it.

A fetus is an irreplaceable 'slab of meat', "We don't really need the baby" We don't need anybody, But we're here for a reason and killing the baby before it could fulfill its purpose in morally wrong.

"Their life barely started"
And you end it, Not because the baby did something wrong, But because the mother made a mistake and had unprotected sex, It is a penalty, Just a penalty for existing.

We can cause Mankind to go extinct, But we don't, We can go and murder everyone we meet, But we don't. We can kill unborn babies, And most people don't.

"Adoption was such a positive alternative to abortion, A way to save one life and brighten two more: those of the adoptive parents. "
George W. Bush, "Decision Points"

If you don't want to, Or can't, Raise a child all you have to do is put it up for adoption. It will bring happiness to the adoptive parents, And give the child a chance at life.
Debate Round No. 3
48 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by John_C_1812_II 2 years ago
John_C_1812_II
Yes, Very close debate. Although the debate itself didn"t address representation to why female pregnancy abortion would become abolished as a united state law. The reason of abolishing might be requested as a common defense to the general welfare. This defense being a removal of self-incrimination as united state would have no impact on the other opportunities of free choice for woman. The freedom of choice means that there must not be a applied cost or self-value assigned to the options given, Self-incrimination is a clear cost that is placed on the female pregnancy abortions.
Posted by Kaiser_Wilhelm-II 2 years ago
Kaiser_Wilhelm-II
I think this was a close debate
Posted by John_C_1812_II 2 years ago
John_C_1812_II
You both make some excellent points. However do you think it is possible that why female pregnancy abortion is illegal is more basic then the possible end of one life. The union that is formed as a United State is centered around a crime, Meaning all woman who are pregnant are placed at a risk prior to all facts being given to a scenario of taking part in an admission.
Pregnancy abortion with a woman is legal when"""""? This answer is found under guidance and protection of due process of law.
Pregnancy abortion with woman is illegal when""". . ? This answer is found under guidance and protection of due process of law.
Pregnancy abortion is a self-incrimination because it describes a process that is criminal as a general principle, Or as a basic principle. Not that is only the crime described as united state. Can this be proven? Yes, Female specific amputation can be proven to be a type of pregnancy abortion at some point. Does it hold a united state of self-incrimination to crime? No. It states only a basic principle as fact removal of part which is only found in woman.
It is the obligation of all followers of a United Sate people to form a more perfect union, By uniting two states of constitution to create all woman as equal.
good luck!
Posted by Kaiser_Wilhelm-II 2 years ago
Kaiser_Wilhelm-II
Also sorry for sounding like I am morally superior to you, After re-reading it, I realize how condescending I sound ;(
Posted by Kaiser_Wilhelm-II 2 years ago
Kaiser_Wilhelm-II
damn, Already time for round three
Posted by John_C_1812_II 2 years ago
John_C_1812_II
As fact pregnancy abortion is an admission of murder. The entire united state created around woman is a process of organizing crime around a lie. All woman who terminate pregnancy are not officially stopping the pregnancy. The woman, All woman stops an immigration across an international border as a single state that is not self-incriminating, The crossing of this border is what is held in public interest and safety.
Posted by anc2006 2 years ago
anc2006
" Murder is wrong" people aren't immortal.

Murder is only wrong if:
1. The person is very necessary to exist
2. The world needs this person
3. There are barely anybody.

Right now, If you assassinate trump that would violate the first 2 reasons, But abortion doesn't break any.
Posted by John_C_1812_II 2 years ago
John_C_1812_II
Men and woman share the weight of death equally by not preserving the life that is started by each partner as a couple respectfully, After a union in made legally before GOD. Every day I do not bear a child with my spouse as she can no longer become pregnant, I am aborting a pregnancy knowingly killing life as it is known in the simplest terms. She performs a pregnancy abortion as well by our union to request we seek no other in life till death do we part.
Nothing wrong? Murder is wrong, I am simply not guilty of murder in a court of law this is not the same as being innocent of a crime outside the court of law. Almost all woman and men take part in pregnancy abortions long before Sex and Marriage ever takes place and making this confession to their Priest is not a crime a judicial law chose to pursue.
Posted by anc2006 2 years ago
anc2006
" Asking forgiveness from her Lord and savior whoever that might be, "

Why r u asking for forgiveness when you did nothing wrong?
Posted by John_C_1812_II 2 years ago
John_C_1812_II
Female Pregnancy abortion are legal, It is something a woman might tell a Priest at confession of sin after allowing the egg she held inside her body to die. Asking forgiveness from her Lord and savior whoever that might be, As she looks for some-one she feels fit to help raise a child she allows to live and risks her own wellbeing to bring across an international border as united state with all fertile woman.
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