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The Instigator
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The Contender
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Can Christians lose their salvation?

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Voting Style: Open with Elo Restrictions Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/26/2020 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 406 times Debate No: 123924
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)




I. Introduction

Peace to you all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. In this debate, I will attempt to prove that a Christian can lose their salvation. In order to win this debate, I must prove that it is possible for a Christian to lose their salvation and my opponent must argue that they cannot. The debate structure is as follows:

R1: Opening statements

R2: Rebuttals
R3: Defense
R4: Close

I would ideally like to go against an opponent who is experienced in debating and would like an opponent who is a Christian and believes in eternal security. With that, Let's begin my opening statements.

II. What is salvation?

In order to properly answer this question, We must begin by asking what salvation is. Is salvation, As many Christians believe, A one time event (i. E. "Jesus please save me") and you're done or is it an ongoing process? And if it is an ongoing process, At what point in this process can you lose salvation? I contend that a person is "saved, Being saved, And will be saved. " This process begins at Baptism and continues until you die. Whoever endures to the end will be saved.

A. Past salvation

The Christian life begins with Baptism. This is clearly and unequivocally taught in scripture. Here are a few verses.

Acts 22:14
14 “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, Be baptized and wash your sins away, Calling on his name. ’

Titus 3:3-8
3 At one time we too were foolish, Disobedient, Deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, Being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, Not because of righteous things we had done, But because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, Having been justified by his grace, We might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, So that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

B. We are being saved

Philippians 2:12-13
12 Therefore, My dear friends, As you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, But now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

In this passage, St. Paul instructs us to work out our salvation. If Salvation was a one time thing, What are we working out? This question must be answered by any person who holds to eternal security.

Matthew 24:13
But he who endures to the end shall be saved

Here Jesus is telling us a sobering truth: Anyone who endures to the end will be saved. What about those who did not endure to the end? Logically, That must mean they won't be saved.

Ezekiel 18:24
"But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, Will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, They will die.

This is the most sobering passage in all of scripture. Here we see clearly and uneqovically that the righteous can fall away and their end will be destruction.

C. We will be saved

Salvation will be finally complete when we stand before God's presence in heaven.

Romans 13:11
And do this, Knowing the time, That now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed

1 Thessolonians 6:8
But let us who are of the day be sober, Putting on the breastplate of faith and love, And as a helmet the hope of salvation.

D. Conclusion

The conclusion of these verses are clear: salvation is not a one time thing, But it is a process that begins with salvation and concludes with life in heaven.

III. Examples of those who lost salvation

There are examples of thoes in the Bible who were saved, But clearly lost it.

A. Believers who fell away

Luke 8:13
Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, But they have no root. They believe for a while, But in the time of testing they fall away.

This verse is a double-whammy to both eternal security and faith alone. If faith alone was true, Then we must believe that they were truly saved; however, If that's the case, Then when they fell away, They lost their salvation.

B. The Galatians

The Galatians were faced with a heresy that taught that one must be faithful to the Mosaic law, Including circumcision, In order to be saved. Paul goes on to say that not only do they not have to keep the law, But by trying to keep the law, They actual sever themselves from Christ.

Galatians 5:4
For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.

C. Judas

Judas was a true believer in Jesus, But his greed got in the way and is now burning in hell for betraying Christ.

Acts 1:24
And they prayed, And said, Thou, Lord, Which knowest the hearts of all men, Shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, From which Judas by transgression fell, That he might go to his own place.

IV. Conclusion

I believe I have thoroughly demonstrated that salvation can be lost. Over to you.



You make the HUGE mistake of heavily relying on the bible. Well, Which translation? Regardless, Who says that ANY of the bible is true? YOU nor anyone can prove that ANY of it is. After all, There"s no possible way that it can be proven as to who ---any--- of the authors were, Yes that includes Moses. There"s a good 1, 000 supermassive hypocritical contradictions and inconsistencies in your bible making it unreadable. There"s copies upon copies upon copies upon translations upon translations upon translations upon dead languages upon dead languages upon dead languages that have died off with absolutely no possible way to trace any of it back to the original because no original exists in the first place. So EVERYBODY, No exceptions, None, Is misinterpreting. Now suppose that there is an original? Who"s going to interpret from this original and get it right so that each translation and update that is required is going to get the same exact message throughout eternity which is a true impossibility simply because of translations terminology differences. "And and and" is going to mean something completely different in another translation to "the the the". Even better? What if these interpreters misinterpret as they all do with no questions asked? Even better? Who gives these interpreters the right to CHANGE anything that these characters say especially with the updates that there are in your bible? Simple. Compare the KJV to the NLT. Especially with your lead characters of your god and christ. It's truly pathetic. Now with all of these truly hideous fatalities in text alone, There"s absolutely no possible way that a true genuine god would have not foreseen all of these fatalities and would not ever, Not for any reason, Use text, Namely your bible, As a form of communication, Advertisement, Correspondence, The worst form of communication possible advertisement, Correspondence TO A GOD.
Here"s a few examples"
* In the Bishop"s bible, The one before the KJV, The word "Tyrant" was used I don"t know how many times (its at least 400 from what completed records show) and then in the KJV that was replaced by "King". WHAT? Tyrant and King are two different and totally apples and oranges with each having totally different meanings.
* In Isaiah 45:7 KJV "I form the light, And create darkness: I make peace, And create evil: I the Lord do all these things. " In the NIV version, Its "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, The Lord, Do all these things. " In the NLT its "I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, The Lord, Am the one who does these things. The words "evil" and "disaster" and "bad" are 3 completely different words that have 0% of nothing to do with each other and completely change the meaning of the verses. With each different verse, The messages are completely different. The synonyms of each word don"t even match.
Now which version is correct if any that millions are reading? And doesn"t any thinking moron not know that no god would allow this kind of crap to not allow any kind of passing the grade and thus no true god, Not for any reason among many reasons, Would never even contemplate using text as a form of communication, Advertisement, Correspondence TO ANY GOD? So what's left? Faith? Do you ---really--- want to get into faith? Science doesn't work because no science was mentioned in the bible AT ALL of any kind to explain its god's existence.

Now you assume that christ is the messiah. This is false even according to your bible because for starters you"d have to prove every single jew as being false. How are you going to do this?

Pay attention closely if you still insist on using the bible:
*Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. "
*Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, The flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. "
*2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, And is profitable for doctrine, For reproof, For correction, For instruction in righteousness:"
*Psalm 19:7 "The law of the Lord is perfect, Converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, Making wise the simple. "
*Psalm 119:160 "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. "
* James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, And cometh down from the Father of
lights, With whom is no variableness, Neither shadow of turning. "
In other words, God"s word is PERFECT. And since god"s word is PERFECT, NOBODY not even jesus could change that word(s) verses. AND since god"s word is PERFECT there would not be a need and or requirement for a change and or updating, Not ever, Not for any reason, Thus jesus would be completely left out of the picture. So once again christ could have not changed anything and "the law" is tossed right out the wayside and into the trash. It really is that simple.
Still not convinced?
John 5: 16-18 "16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, And sought to slay him, Because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, And I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, Because he not only had broken the sabbath, But said also that God was his Father, Making himself equal with God. "
Many problems with those verses. 1. 17 So according to the unproven jesus, His father, Namely the unproven god works on the sabbath. 2. There"s a 0% chance that YOUR unproven god is going to work on the sabbath, NOT ever. Not for any reason. So either 3. The unproven jesus flat out lied with the above verses and thus proved that he is false, The entire NT is false and christianity is false or 4. These verses are misprints in which is the most likely of probabilities in which is supposed to be a perfect book or 5. The entire OT is false which there"s a 0% chance of that if you believe in the unproven god as once again there"s no chance god would ---ever--- work on the sabbath. 6. Or the unproven jesus, Just as he does often in YOUR babbling bible, He TALKS to himself (just as any good pretend savior does thus marking true insanity and this is what YOU pay attention to) and PRETENDS that he is YOUR unproven god, Just like he is unproven in YOUR bible to have any given powers your unproven god has. 7. 18 Notice how your unproven jesus himself appoints HIMSELF to be equal with your unproven god? 8. Where did this unproven jesus get permission from your unproven god to do this? 9. Wow. What an utter complete selfish and total egotist. 10. No need to worry. The entire bible screams of YOUR god"s superior ego god complex. That"s what the bible is entirely about and nothing else. 11. There"s no proof whatsoever that god and jesus have ---ever--- existed.
Still not convinced? Here"s some common sense videos made and shot by professionals
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=x-slAgzJmdU - Why Does Every Intelligent christian disobey jesus?
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=5YPVtSaqwi4 - Unfilling Prophecy Aron Ra
Jewish prophecies of the mashiach
1. He must be jewish
2. He must be a member of the tribe of Judah and must be a direct male descendant of both King Soloman and King David.
3. He must gather the jewish people from exile and return them to Israel.
4. He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.
5. He must bring world peace.
6. He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one god.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=6lqC8fvIspY - jesus wasn"t jesus (Aron Ra)
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=KXAGpCTiGlQ - The True Core of the jesus Myth (Christopher Hitchens)
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=apS_679ru50 - Did jesus Exist? Https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=9AzwJ9d4i1g - Why christianity is Unreasonable (Richard Carrier)
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=AJMd5UiTeys - Biggest Lie - The fourth gospel ("The first striking revision in the 4th gospel is that the ministry of jesus has ballooned out from one year to three. The writers not only make a reference not only from one but to three distinct passover festivals. Now was this just a tradition that some early christians held to a three year ministry and others to a one year ministry? Can anyone honestly maintain that whole dialogues could be remembered word for word for many decades and yet believers have no common agreement whether these words were said during one year or during three years? ")
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=lDpEeHD54Mo - The Gospel According to Carrier (Richard Carrier states jesus may have possibly existed, But scrap all the mythology)
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=O5AordEPtok - Proving the Historicity of Jesus? Tracie and David
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=hmKTUOzXRkI - Stephanie Thomason vs Matt Dillahunty, Or how not to debate an Atheist! (skip to the 7:00 mark! ) Oh this one is good and Pro is the caller with his furry tongue.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=NAqEmYJcXX8 - What did jesus do for you?

So you really think there"s peace in the name of christ? You do realize, Of course that within christianity there"s the most evil thing ---ever--- within ---any--- religion of all time? If you do not believe in your christ, That"s an automatic bid to your mythical hell for having done nothing wrong. But wait! Hitler, Mao, Pot Pot, Hong Xiuquan, Stalin all serial killers, Rapists, Pedophiles, Torturers, Sodomizers etc if they manage to find your christ they are guaranteed a spot in your mythical heaven when they should rightly burn forever in eternal fires of damnation. If that isn"t completely twisted and backward into complete and total craziness, What is?
Another thing. . . Since your god's inception there have not been 50 years, Just 50 years of peace, Not anywhere, Not at any time, Not within any culture. It's something to think about.
You have 0 outs.

I"m out of space.
Debate Round No. 1


I'm deeply saddened that my opponent has accepted this debate in bad faith and opted to troll, Rather than provide real arguments. With all due respect, I clearly asked for a Christian to accept this debate, Not an atheist. Moreover, Your wall of text is extremely difficult to read and understand.


The argument is simple. My opponent actually thinks that there is such thing as christianity and valid salvation exists which is a true impossibility because christ, As proven in the previous RD according to the bible no matter which translation is bled with so much hate in it, Not love, As christ was not the messiah that the jews have been looking for, For thousands of years and are still looking for because my opponent would have to prove every single jew on the planet as being false in which case he/ she cannot possibly do. All my opponent did in the previous RD was make a truly saddened attempt to deflect for something in which he/ she obviously knows absolutely nothing about, Point blank obviously, Whereas evidence was provided to prove christianity as being 100% false and then some which is his/ her supposed religion. He/ she calls me a "troll"? No, It's my opponent to come up with this s--t of a debate for something that he/ she clearly without question knows ab-so-lu-te-ly nothing about, But only guesses at best from the most hateful book ever scribed especially when everybody who doesn't believe in this mythical christ is to automatically be sent to this supposed hell and those like Hitler who was a devout claimed christian would have a place in this mythical heaven, And yeah, The bible is also one of the bloodiest books of all time. Has this person ever read it? Most definitely not.

Let's continue to prove christianity as being 100% false in this RD.

How many actual christians follow these laws of the unproven christ? . 0% thank the unproven storybook character god of print only. Well, Perhaps 1, 000 people on the planet. It's most definitely not the author of this debate that's for sure.

With these verses, The piece of s--t christ wants to destroy the family structure. Um no, You 100% should love your family more, A LOT MORE than an unproven piece of toxic text sneezerag christ of invisibility factors that's never been proven to exist, That once again no god would be stupid enough, Not ever, Not for any reason, Not ever, Would use text, Namely the bible as a form of communication, The absolute worst form of communication, Advertisement, Correspondence, Possible to a god. Any simpleton moron can realize this that a god can easily talk to all of man and thus avoid the fatal fatalities that text has, Especially with no updates from 2, 000 years ago. This is not that hard to figure out. Apparently it is to the creator of this debate.
Matthew 10: 35-37 "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, And the daughter against her mother, And the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. "

Luke 12: 51-53 "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, Three against two, And two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, And the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, And the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, And the daughter in law against her mother in law. "
Well gosh golly, This christ of text only WAS NOT "suppose" anything as far as peace is concerned considering that since his daddy's, Namely, God's inception there hasn't been 50 years, Just 50 stinking years of peace, Not anywhere, Not at any period of time, And not within any culture. HE'S GOD FOD F--K'S SAKE. This unproven storybook character god of print only IF TRUE can create peace, Harmony, Love, Kindness, Etc throughout the world ---anytime--- it wants to. Nah. But as it states in the bumbling babbling baby brained brainwashed big black hole bible it states of it's god it has emotions of evil, Anger, Wrath, Vengeance, Rage, Fury, Jealousy. Jealousy? WHAT? Jealousy is nothing more than ager as disguised fear. And certainly, No true god would possess it with such atrophied love and envy.

Exodus 34:14 "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, Whose name is Jealous, Is a jealous God:"

Matthew 19: 28-29 "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, In the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, Ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, Judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, Or brethren, Or sisters, Or father, Or mother, Or wife, Or children, Or lands, For my name's sake, Shall receive an hundredfold, And shall inherit everlasting life. "
Here's some more truly great values that should be taught to every single person that NOBODY FOLLOWS. The creator of this debate certainly doesn't, Otherwise he/ she would have not been able to have communicated through his/ her computer/ telephone or whatever messaging system that is available to him/ her to thus give up ALL OF his/ her possessions, NO EXCEPTIONS, NONE. This would include every---single person's cars, Yep as mentioned your computers, Telephones, Games, Houses, Even clothes on your back and "follow me".
Luke 14:33 "So likewise, Whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, He cannot be my disciple. "
What decent person on this planet would ---ever--- in his or her right mind want to be a disciple of this so-called unproven christ of text only with cow dung rules like that?

Luke 18:22 "Now when Jesus heard these things, He said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, And distribute unto the poor, And thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, Follow me. "
In case you can't read. . . "sell all that thou hast". Can it be any clearer?

Matthew 19: 28-29 "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, In the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, Ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, Judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, Or brethren, Or sisters, Or father, Or mother, Or wife, Or children, Or lands, For my name's sake, Shall receive an hundredfold, And shall inherit everlasting life. "
Yeah it's repeated from the verses above. So what?

Matthew 19:21 "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, Go and sell that thou hast, And give to the poor, And thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. "
Really? And come "follow me". Thankfully there are some smart thinking peace generating atheists out there that never will.

Matthew 13: 22 "He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, And the deceitfulness of riches, Choke the word, And he becometh unfruitful. "
Do you believe that its perfectly OK for your unproven character storybook god of print onlyto hate on children and babies for no reason at all and in murder them? Y____? N____? Why? Why not?
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=2zYG_fJLjBg - god hates children
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=5kQTIX7NRE4 - Atheist debates get em while they"re young
LM4: 9-11, MT 10:37, MT 2:16, JG 21:10, DT 2:34, NU 31: 17-18, LV 26: 21-22, HS 13:16, EZ 9: 5-7, HS 9: 11-16, EX 12: 29-30, IS 13: 15-18, MT 2:16, EX 21:17, LV 20:9, MK 7:10, MT 15:4, MT 10:21, JG 11: 30-33, PS 137: 8-9, DT 21: 18-21, DT 32:25, DT 2: 32-34, DT 3: 3-6, JG 19: 24-29, EX 12:29, LV 26:29, JM 11: 22-23, JM 19: 7-9, JM 51: 22-26, LM 2: 20-22, RV 2: 18-23 (btw with this exercise some of them are from your lovely NT so you have no excuses)
There is no justifiable reason that ---anyone--- can think of to murder any child or baby. Yet somehow supposed christians are AGAINST ABORTIONS? ! ? ! ? ! WHAT? ! ? ! And supposed christians unproven storybook character god of print only MURDERS babies and children? ! ? ! ? ! Yeah, That"s not only contradictory and hypocritical from their s--t of an unproven god"s point of view, But their diseased sickened coughed upped unproven god also gave one of the 10 commandments of "thou shalt not kill". But wait gosh golly gee gosh darned it all, Their unproven storybook character god of print only that RELIES OF FAITH for its existence (tee hee) kills, Well actually murders. Damn right there are BILLIONS of atheists on this planet (those who do not believe in a god or gods) who are not going to MURDER because a jacked up high on mighty uterus explosions silly little UNPROVEN god wants to get his tickles at a gichi party says so.
A child, Age 6 for example who has stage 4 cancer, Does not know what is happening to him/ her. Their cries are not heard, That they are in constant pain unless they are given sedatives/ pain killers, That they are terrified, That they are in an unfamiliar place (a hospital of some kind as an example), And are not home unless it is a special circumstance, That they really do not understand what suffering is, But those around them probably do, Etc etc etc.

Oh and btw, YOUR god put children in that position of suffering to begin with which is 100% pure evil and hate. YOUR god absolutely loves to knowingly suffer, Otherwise he would not create their situations for them to suffer.

And btw, I know that you know that you cannot contemplate suffering at all. Your precious jesus in which case you cannot prove has ever existed went through 12 hours, Tops, Of suffering. Some children go through decades of suffering. Your precious jesus had it easy.

Now please do tell me what a child can possibly learn from suffering? Much less an adult? If you"ve answered "nothing", You"ve answered correctly.

There's plenty more on the children that your unproven storybook character god of print only hates and plenty more also.

I'm out of space.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Skye2468 2 years ago
I was actually talking to catholicever though
Posted by Skye2468 2 years ago
lol backwardseden, Good to see you again. Long time no see.
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
@Skye2468 - Um no. I'm not interested in debating you on anything that has to do with christiaity because quite frankly, You like so many here on DDO, Have proven yourself to be "disaster artist/ the room" failure so many times around. You are totally 100% incapable of taking any truth to heart, In which case if anyone tells you something that happens to be truthful and you get it, You simply ignore that truth, Or you completely drop out of sight and wait for another time just like you've done right now. Bad idea. You are also 100% totally incapable of telling any truth except for your own, Which is not by any means what your bible states in which case, Regardless, No idiot god from ---any--- religion would never be stupid enough, Not ever, Not for any reason, To use text, Namely your bible, As a form of communication, Advertisement, Correspondence, The absolute worst form of communication, Advertisement, Correspondence possible TO A GOD and yet you keep plugging away at it. Yet the worst possible thing about you is you have no genuine friends or loved ones. None. My soapbox brain remembers you claiming that you do. B. S. Nobody of right mind is going to put themselves in front of a speeding bullet FOR YOU when you claim that you have first hand knowledge of a storybook unproven character god of print only. This would mean unto them that only you see this supposed god and they don't, That only you can communicate with it, That you are somehow better than they are for whatever reason. Really? It's a HUGE major character fatal flaw that you try to babble unto others AND you expect others to believe YOU when YOU talk/ babble about this supposed god that nobody has ever proven in the entire existence of the human race. Even worse is since this god of YOURS inception, There's not been 50 years, Just 50 fricken years of peace, Not anywhere, Not at any specific time, Not within any culture. Yet this supposed god of yours is supposed to be about peace. Really?
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
@anc2006 - It has 0% of nothing to do with christians losing their salvation especially when christianity is not a valid religion. That's according to the bible itself.
Posted by Skye2468 2 years ago
But if you would rather use this website we can do it on here sometime as well
Posted by Skye2468 2 years ago
I would like to debate you sometime. I am pro eternal security. I don't know when I will be able to do it yet, But when I can get around to it I think it would be fun.

Also you should join https://www. Debateart. Com/. It's another debating website that I will probably be using more than this website.
Posted by anc2006 2 years ago

If you think that Christians cannot lose its salvation, You have to prove how christian and its believes are real. Based on your thinkings this cannot be, So this is pretty much a waste debate.
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