The Instigator
anc2006
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
TheUnexaminedLife
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Celebrating birthday is an utter waste

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/1/2019 Category: Arts
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 509 times Debate No: 123110
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
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anc2006

Pro

I'd like for my opponent say what he/she believes first.
TheUnexaminedLife

Con

Celebrating birthdays has become a form of socially condoned narcissism. Christ gets a day, Martin Luther King gets a day, And you too get a whole day that is yours without having done anything to deserve it! Have friends and family gather and give you gifts and kindness for no other reason than your own sense of self-entitlement from being born. Additionally as the centre of attention, Special concessions will be made to you, Platitudes said, For no apparent reason other than it's social etiquette to go along with it. You too will have to 'be nice' to people on their birthdays unless you want to risk everyone else thinking you an unsavory fellow. Birthdays -- pah! What an utter waste of human energy, Frivolously celebrating a person's mere existence instead of rewarding them on the days when they've actually achieved something! I make sure that my birthdays are just the same as any other average day.
Debate Round No. 1
anc2006

Pro

refutes coming here. Thanks to my opponent who's apparently being respectful.

"Celebrating birthdays has become a form of socially condoned narcissism. "

Well we sort-of agree here. Another reason why we don't really agree here is because birthday, Celebrated during the date of your birth, Is actually a sign of death indeed. Each time you have a birthday, Your life is taken away by a year. As that most people does not anticipate for death, And there are no real indication for death itself, It would be a pointless celebration for birthdays.

"Christ gets a day, Martin Luther King gets a day, "

But not all people will get a day because their impact on the world(especially positive) in not enough. You don't see trump's birthday in which the small children stay home play their 3dses. You don't see parades for your own birthday all around the world.

And it is not the ideal day to get off since the day christianity become mainstream and the amendment of racism being completely abolished would be a better day to be at home baking and celebrating. The only reason to celebrate christmas when you think abut it is atheists because since every christmas is one year of life of Jesus taken away, And this celebration thus would become unholy. Unless you want christianity to die off, You don't need to celebrate christmas. The reason people still do celebrate it is because they just follow what the earth does, But little does they know it is useless, If not harmful. Birthday is a significance of life taken away sooner and sooner, In theory and logic.

"And you too get a whole day that is yours without having done anything to deserve it! "

You'd get more day to celebrate. Let's say, You got a medal from the township, You won the 100m sprint contest, You graduated from college. . . There are a lot of things you can celebrate elsewhere. Celebrating a day in which you didn't do anything for it, Seems. . . Empty and in vain.

"Have friends and family gather and give you gifts and kindness for no other reason than your own sense of self-entitlement from being born. "

yay, I exist? My existence isn't what is beneficial, But what I did. If George washington was taught to steal and do drugs, Then the national day of washington's birthday wouldn't even exist. It doesn't matter when was I born. It matters when I succeeded. If Elon Musk's birthday was December 28th, That still may not affect his success. If Lincoln failed to learn anything in school even if his birthday was the same it would not be famous.

I can time travel using future technology and when I arrived 6 months later while having my regular family birthday dinner(which I was tired of even if the center of the day was me), Because I didn't age, My so-called birthday would shift over 6 months. Let's say 4/24 and 10/24, Which one am I going to celebrate? Not only it is useless, It would be confusing. However time-travel may not affect US's independence unless Washington and Jefferson were assassinated, Thus it can stay as what it is.

"Additionally as the centre of attention, Special concessions will be made to you, Platitudes said, For no apparent reason other than it's social etiquette to go along with it. "

Why are we wasting money over something useless? Unless the group of people make luxury meals everyday, It would be acceptable to do it in a random date. But it would be a waste to cook 3 massachusetts lobsters per meal on that day if the ideal amount the normal diet the person gets is merely salads and crab cakes.

"You too will have to 'be nice' to people on their birthdays unless you want to risk everyone else thinking you an unsavory fellow. "

That is not a requirement as that the birthdays, Which is something random and not worth celebrating being abolished certainly could save a kind-of poor family to an OK family. If the average expense of a birthday is $1, 000 then those money would be wasted unless it is for everyday works done regularly. Let's say $850 wasted on a family of 4. 4 birthdays per year equals 3, 400 dollars being thrown into the cash river. Let's say the annual income of this family is 30, 000, And 9 years of no birthday would double their annual income with 30, 000 dollars or more saved. Don't say it is no joy. This is still at the expense in which July 4th, Christmas day, Thanksgiving-days were celebrated annually regularly.

If I said that I might help my family to reboot themselves instead of collapsing with bare birthdays consider a stretch sprint at 400m would not help me in a 10, 000m run.

"Birthdays -- pah! What an utter waste of human energy, Frivolously celebrating a person's mere existence instead of rewarding them on the days when they've actually achieved something! "

Sure, That is my stance being predicted by my opponent before I even spoke. Hands on, Hats off.

"I make sure that my birthdays are just the same as any other average day. "

If this is the case, Then your birthday is not celebrated and it is no point for it to exist anymore. It doesn't need to be celebrated and it is OK for you to not celebrate it: look, This debate is that if we should celebrate birthdays or not. Birthdays themselves maybe had done nothing wrong, But celebrating is a waste just like wasting money in a normal day.
TheUnexaminedLife

Con

Replies and Rebuts:
"each time you have a birthday, Your life is taken away by a year"
Each life is not a given quantity, 70 years of certified living, To be deducted from year after year. A life can cease at any second. That's why the Greeks and certain French philosophers talked about mastering each day, Each moment, To be like an artform to be enjoyed and celebrated. If one wants to celebrate one's continued existence, The best way to do so is not to have a token party for one day only. It is better to life your whole life enjoying being alive and achieving the goals you deem important.

"Birthday is a significance of life taken away sooner and sooner, In theory and logic. "
Why should one's death be celebrated any more than one's life? Years are a good way to demarcate time. They help doctors predict illnesses and diagnose you. They allow you to reflect on the passage of time (although often on an assumed timeline of infancy-youth-adulthood-old age). This is no reason to celebrate the day itself. We should recognise birthdays as a way to measure human aging: not arbitrarily celebrate them simply because they exist.

"But not all people will get a day because their impact on the world(especially positive) in not enough. "
Yet many individuals put more emphasis on enjoying their birthday as opposed to Martin Luther King's (etc. ). It is lived by them as more important than other days in the yearly calendar -- evincing the underlying narcissism in celebrating one's birthday (unless forced to by friends and family in their recognition of you).

"Why are we wasting money over something useless? "
Capitalism.

Should birthdays be abolished? Peter Singer made the ethical argument that all unnecessary capital one had ought to be spent on saving and bettering other human lives otherwise you are deciding that unnecessary luxuries (like birthday celebrations) are more important than these human lives. I would certainly accept birthday gifts if they were to charity. Many wealthy families only give gifts to charity on their kin's birthdays because that family member is already so rich. (Adopt a Mongolian Donkey for Christmas, Etc). The revenue spent on birthdays if channeled elsewhere could certainly work for the betterment of the world.

"I can time travel using future technology"
What happens to your birthday when you time-travel? A physics question. You would have to have a ratio between Earth years and the velocity past lightspeed you travelled at to go forwards into the future to measure how old you are.

"you don't see trump's birthday in which the small children stay home play their 3dses"
14th June. You, Me and the Republican party. Let's party. #TrumpDay
Debate Round No. 2
anc2006

Pro

"Each life is not a given quantity, 70 years of certified living, To be deducted from year after year. A life can cease at any second. "

There is a reason why you celebrate it after success. Living your life a year more doesn't make you automatically successful more than Tutankhamen. There are mediocre people living beyond 101 years, And there are celebrities and entrepreneurs that died at age 23. Speaking of which, If you are trying to be successful the following year, Why not make the period longer, Like 5 years, Or 2. 5 years, Or 10 years, Or spontaneous, Every time you succeed? Celebrating birthday itself is useless. You are just celebrating the event, Making birthdays drifting away from its name itself. Plus, You are not guaranteed to be good on birthdays. My 11th birthday was spend in a hospital in which I am barely conscious and I didn't track of the date. That is perfectly normal. And plus, Some adults doesn't want to be the center of attention, Or just doesn't want to let a kinda-less-useful time eat up his final presentation on assistive rocket science.

"This is no reason to celebrate the day itself. We should recognise birthdays as a way to measure human aging: not arbitrarily celebrate them simply because they exist. "

at this point you aren't even celebrating your birthday. You are just celebrating the things before and after betting on it being successful. This also proves why birthdays itself is indeed useless. You aren't celebrating the day itself.

"Yet many individuals put more emphasis on enjoying their birthday as opposed to Martin Luther King's (etc. ). It is lived by them as more important than other days in the yearly calendar -- evincing the underlying narcissism in celebrating one's birthday (unless forced to by friends and family in their recognition of you). "

Let's me just post a link of what narcissism really is. Https://en. Wikipedia. Org/wiki/Narcissism

Narcissism is of course harmful to humans at some point, And christianity list it as a sin. But narcissism on something that holds barely anything would be a little bit too on the nose. This is like using your newly engineered submarine just to find where your pencil dropped in the river yesterday. Birthdays are useless in general. It is what is inside that made it have a use(still barely because you didn't do much). If the US always gets gold medals on basketball doesn't mean every athlete in the entire US can all play basketball like Jordan. Birthday it a husk. You are trying to cherish the thing inside not itself.

"Capitalism. "

Living 14 years in capitalist countries, I see no obligations of that.

"? Peter Singer made the ethical argument that all unnecessary capital one had ought to be spent on saving and bettering other human lives otherwise you are deciding that unnecessary luxuries (like birthday celebrations) are more important than these human lives. I would certainly accept birthday gifts if they were to charity. "

So It goes from my family to me, And to the donation box and to the charity. Why don't I just tell my parents to just donate them into the charity box in the first place? It is unnecessary to put the present through me consider it will go to the charity anyways. Or else, Either don't spend it or put it into other charities. Don't label them as presents for me knowing it is not obligatory. There are no need to give presents on birthdays consider poor family need things for many times not just their birthdays, And rich families can spend their money evenly not just on their festivals.

"The revenue spent on birthdays if channeled elsewhere could certainly work for the betterment of the world. "

As I said, It is not obligatory to hand it to me. It is possible to just donate it like it it is a plain normal day.

"What happens to your birthday when you time-travel? A physics question. You would have to have a ratio between Earth years and the velocity past lightspeed you travelled at to go forwards into the future to measure how old you are. "

The question is: if My physical age barely changed in 1. 5 years of moon spaceships, Which birthday am I celebrating? The one before I went in to space or after?

"14th June. You, Me and the Republican party. Let's party. #TrumpDay"

WTF I am not even a trump supporter.

Argument done.
TheUnexaminedLife

Con

We essentially agree that celebrating birthday's for birthday's sake rewards someone for no significant reason. Although it can be useful for friends and family to recognise and show signs of care to a loved one, Kind acts throughout the year as opposed to just on one token day would better exemplify this care.

"doesn't make you automatically successful more than Tutankhamen"
Tutankhamun was not successful; he became Pharaoh due to his heritage and died before reaching twenty -- the last of his dynasty. This makes him a failure by history's standards. He is only so well known because of the gold death mask found by archaeologists which has become a symbol of Ancient Egypt.

"Some adults doesn't want to be the center of attention"
A method commonly used to overcome personal weaknesses (such as social anxiety) is exposure therapy. Learning to become the centre of attention if only for a time is useful and certainly not a reason for not celebrating birthdays. There's a difference between wanting to be paid attention (which is self-centred) and attention being paid to you.

"You aren't celebrating the day itself. "
You miss the point; it's important for someone to know that they're aged 64. It tells doctors that certain things are more likely to be wrong with them. It signifies to that 64 year old certain things about their life (that they're nearer death, That they shouldn't date a 18 year old, Etc. ) which will inform how they live in the present. Birthdays are useful for recording how much time has passed in one's life even if you do not want to celebrate them.

"Let's me just post a link of what narcissism really is. Https://en. Wikipedia. Org/wiki/Narcissism"
A bit condesending. Narcissism as a term began with the oral traditions of ancient Greek and Rome recorded by Ovid in the Metamorphoses (the myth of Narcissus). The term has changed its meaning a lot over 2000 years and has been reshaped in the past century by the psychoanalysts and psychiatrists. Thinking oneself more important than others -- that is at the very heart of the Narcissus myth. Admiring oneself enough to put more emphasis on celebrating your birthday than in recognising the value of others and their deeds -- that is narcissism. Perhaps you should do more research on the term before claiming to know what narcissism "really is".

""Why are we wasting money over something useless? "
Capitalism.
Living 14 years in capitalist countries, I see no obligations of that. "
Gift-giving and spending capital on birthday celebrations is encouraged by capitalist systems since people operating under them want to make as much profit as possible. Think birthday cards. Think of all those businesses who make money from birthdays being celebrated (bowling allies, Restaurants, Etc). The market clearly benefits from the celebration of birthdays.

"Why don't I just tell my parents to just donate them into the charity box in the first place? "
I agree; there is no reason to give gifts on birthdays. Yet I think it's more important that charities get help than it is to remove the social protocol of gift-giving on birthdays and giving to charity as a gift to someone might be motivation for donating to charity. Social recognition that you have done a good thing (given money to the needy) also might motivate people to donate.

"Which birthday am I celebrating? "
I guess your Earth friends and family will recognise only your normal birthday even though it would no longer accurately demarcate your age (which is true of all birthdays anyway considering leap years).

"14th June. You, Me and the Republican party. Let's party. #TrumpDay"
WTF I am not even a trump supporter. "
It's called irony. But in many countries over the years, The birthday of political leaders has been celebrated. I'm sure some children in America are made to celebrate Trump Day.
Debate Round No. 3
anc2006

Pro

"A method commonly used to overcome personal weaknesses (such as social anxiety) is exposure therapy. Learning to become the centre of attention if only for a time is useful and certainly not a reason for not celebrating birthdays. There's a difference between wanting to be paid attention (which is self-centred) and attention being paid to you. "

Not exactly. Being the center of the attention means a waste on money. You may say that these money are spend in worth, But not exactly: if you don't want attention, Why are you forced for attention, When you want to save money(which is the reason people aren't the center of attention)?

Again, Birthday is a husk. You are celebrating the things inside of it, Not itself. Having vacation on yom kippur doesn't mean you are celebrating Leif Erikson day.

"which will inform how they live in the present. Birthdays are useful for recording how much time has passed in one's life even if you do not want to celebrate them. "

Why a year, Why not monthly, One per 5 year, Or weekly? You barely change anything physically within a year(for example, When My family compare pictures, The only things changed are hairs, Clothes and glasses. Nothing else. It is a gradual change, Not a sudden change in which you turned from a baby to a old man in 1 year.

Even then, The checkup can be any day annually, Like 1/1, 7/4 or 5/23. Why only birthdays? And are you really celebrating the day itself? No.

"Thinking oneself more important than others -- that is at the very heart of the Narcissus myth. Admiring oneself enough to put more emphasis on celebrating your birthday than in recognising the value of others and their deeds -- that is narcissism. Perhaps you should do more research on the term before claiming to know what narcissism "really is". "

It is still a fact that narcissism is harmful to human at some point as it wastes resources for selfish reasons.

"Gift-giving and spending capital on birthday celebrations is encouraged by capitalist systems since people operating under them want to make as much profit as possible. Think birthday cards. Think of all those businesses who make money from birthdays being celebrated (bowling allies, Restaurants, Etc). The market clearly benefits from the celebration of birthdays. "

So, Giving something unnecessary, Consider many things are prepared specifically for festivals. That is nothing but a scam consider the expensive things either has replacements or it is useless, Consider I'd still live a good life with a banish of birthdays and all other festivals. It saves money.

"I agree; there is no reason to give gifts on birthdays. Yet I think it's more important that charities get help than it is to remove the social protocol of gift-giving on birthdays and giving to charity as a gift to someone might be motivation for donating to charity. Social recognition that you have done a good thing (given money to the needy) also might motivate people to donate. "

It is not a birthday special. Why not on a daily basis.

"I guess your Earth friends and family will recognise only your normal birthday even though it would no longer accurately demarcate your age (which is true of all birthdays anyway considering leap years). "

Why am I overspending on a day that means absolutely nothing to me?
TheUnexaminedLife

Con

Your final round was somewhat clumsier than the others. I think you've become tired of this debate wanting more to re-express your opinion -- birthdays are bad, A waste of money, Etc. -- than to argue it out.

"Being the center of the attention means a waste on money"
This is clearly untrue. It is unnecessary to spend money in order to make something the centre of attention (using the word 'unnecessary' in its meaning in philosophical logic). When you say 'good boy' to your dog you are not making a financial transaction to that dog. When you say 'look at her' and make her the centre of attention, You are not paying her. Saying 'happy birthday' to someone and recognising their birthday does not in any way necessitate financial expenditure. Someone has a psychological problem if they do not want people to notice them and make them the centre of attention (if only briefly). They should seek to overcome this problem.

"Why a year"
Why a month or day? A year is just the arbitrary mode of measuring things humans use -- based on the rotation of the Earth around the Sun. & The practical benefits from this measure of time are useful.

"The checkup can be any day annually"
Yes and medical appointments do not usually occur on someone's birthday annually. They can occur whenever. When you go for a checkup or find yourself in a hospital, The doctor will want to know how old you are because this information is useful in trying to figure out what it wrong with you (e. G. A certain cancer might be more common in people of a certain age bracket and so the doctor spends more time seeing whether your symptoms relate to this cancer as opposed to less common illnesses first).

"It is still a fact that narcissism is harmful to human at some point"
Self-preservation isn't harmful. Many artists thrive because of their narcissistic traits. You need to do your research and make an evidenced argument before making unsubstantiated generalisations like this. I would certainly agree that narcissistic traits are socially perceived as vices broadly-speaking. That proves nothing.

"Consider I'd still live a good life with a banish of birthdays and all other festivals. It saves money. "
What are you saving this money for? I wouldn't ban all festivals -- some are fun and joyous ways for people to celebrate together. I would prefer however that the emphasis on certain holidays (like Christmas and birthdays) was not giving gifts to a person who doesn't need them just because they were born but trying to resolve some of the problems communities face around the globe.

"It is not a birthday special. Why not on a daily basis. "
Doing good things on a daily basis is (of course) good. Having one day which brings attention to certain people and problems however might provide motivation for people to do the good things in the first place.

"Why am I overspending on a day that means absolutely nothing to me? "
I don't know; I'm not your psychologist or shrink.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by curshdude 2 years ago
curshdude
I am 47 and have lived both sides of the argument.

I don't believe every part of life is in black and white. My wife was raised on birthday parties. I was not. I complained about them for years. But I came to realize that people don't really use them to put someone on a pedestal. In practice its just an excuse to have get togethers. Or to follow what everyone else does. But a birthday party alone cannot alter much in a person. The other 364 days a year are what influences a person. I still don't like birthdays. But not because I think they are bad. I just don't care for the commotion and I dislike some people that show up. I always told my wife that her family birthday parties are clearly mini reunions. Adults spend more time chatting and gossiping. We spend so much time trapped in slave mode and bored at home that any party beats the monotony.

Personally. Instead of banning birthday parties, We should ban birthdays. Who cares what age we are? You can tell a child from an adult without numbers. And in my experience, Birthdays have done more harm to anyone over 40. Society starts reminding you that you are less significant than you once were and that you are closer to "old age" or death. We should be spending more times feeling like we're all in the same boat instead of categorizing.
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