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The Instigator
MassiveLizard
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Dreamweaver2828
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Civilization is Collapsing

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/15/2019 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 439 times Debate No: 122435
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

MassiveLizard

Pro

We are in an unprecedented age with rapidly increasing complexity, Which considering nuclear armament, And climate change, Our politics are too unstable to resolve our current predicament without some change.
Dreamweaver2828

Con

I don't disagree with your opening argument, Just the title. Things are bad and seem to be getting worse in many regards. For example, In the 1950's a man could provide a home for his family with a single income. Fast forward 70 years. With the advent of automated log machines, Wireless tools, Bar-codes, The internet, 3D printed homes, And incredible automation the American dream keeps shrinking somehow. If all truck, Bus, And Uber drivers lost their jobs to A. I. They should be able to retire with the same standard of living (in theory) because the same resources are still being produced. What's really happening is that our "human farmers" have their hands on a "supply knob" for everything important and continue fine tuning our society to keep everyone perpetually busy, Confused, And angry while we're pick-pocketed. With double-incomes now imperative, Every family member is split apart for the day and given work to complete in the evening. All of those things they scare us with (about society collapsing) work in their favor so that we'll continue begging them for our protection when they're really the culprit.

There's a simple fix for a broken world which means that we have a choice over whether civilization will collapse or not. This is why your title is inaccurate. I see us moving towards the finish line.

Before explaining what the fix is the problem has to be identified. In short, Mankind has been blinded by its righteousness. The Human Intelligence Protocol was recently discovered and it holds the promise of replacing our Bill of Rights with a Bill of Wrongs. The problem with rights is that they give people the permission to commit any mistake that gets in their way.

People have a very difficult time seeing what has yet to occur, Like a round world many centuries ago, Or blockchain technology in the 90's. Speaking of which, Blockchain technology, When combined with the Human Intelligence Protocol, Will finally allow us to decentralize the truth (or rather discover what's unanimously not wrong). I'm sure few could imagine the world coming to a unanimous agreement on anything. . . But that's only because you'd have the notion of "rights" or "laws" in your mind. There's no righteous way forward without stepping on some minority and pissing them off. Now. . . If you want to be intelligent (like launching a manned mission to the moon) you'd focus on mistake avoidance and achieve unanimity. The same people in mission control comprise the polarized public yet they still are able to succeed at something overwhelming complex without involving democracy.

Is there any job that a person does today which cannot be replaced by a machine in the future? The only ones that remain will be perfectly suited for open source. Once humanity can rid itself of desperation by automating the procurement of the 5 essentials within the home (food, Water, Electricity, Medicine, Shelter) there will be no reason to use money any longer. With money out of the way taxation is impossible. . . And along with it war, Prisons, Police, Politics, And borders. It doesn't take very many to collapse the system into something benevolent if they're able to find a unanimous and mistake-less way forward. The Arab Spring showed us that the internet is our spark of life, Not unlike the bio-mechanical or chemical connections in our brain. Freedom can be stood for, Not fought against. The world simply needs to embrace an intelligent method for collaborating and there will be no more reason for competition to exist (outside of entertainment).
Debate Round No. 1
MassiveLizard

Pro

You don't disagree that our politics are too unstable to resolve our predicament without some change: nuclear Armageddon and climate change (the rising of sea levels, And the destruction of earth's ecosystems), But you disagree with the title?

If you're arguing that resolving this predicament is inevitable, You're forgetting the change needed (for people to adapt to this) isn't exactly known, Despite the human intelligence protocol being discovered, Because there still is a human element, The quality that determines human behavior; the most salient one being consciousness. Someone actually needs to act and I do not see this happening.

Everyone can only assume it will not, Due to this variable. Resolving it will require the knowledge of consciousness.

Since there isn't currently an answer to : "the world simply needs to embrace an intelligent method for collaborating and there will be no more reason for competition to exist", I can't, And no one else will find an imperative requiring people to "rid itself of desperation by automating the procurement of the 5 essentials within the home (food, Water, Electricity, Medicine, Shelter) "
Dreamweaver2828

Con

I've been trying to submit my argument and each time it resets my "time remaining" but nothing shows up in Round 2. Debate. Org clearly has a bug. Maybe it's a size thing. If this message goes through check the comments for entry on this round.
Debate Round No. 2
MassiveLizard

Pro

I'm facing the same bug. I'll post mine in the comment section.
Dreamweaver2828

Con

Well, All that I can hope is that others will read. The machines are either here to liberate or decimate us. We now have a choice to push for an open source world founded on collaboration or fall to the treachery of competition. Anything is possible and I'd really like to find others who share the dream of reaching new world united by decentralized trust.
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by MassiveLizard 2 years ago
MassiveLizard
Never mind, Debating with you isn't worth my time. I saw your other posts.
Posted by Dreamweaver2828 2 years ago
Dreamweaver2828
3. Medicine: Check out what 3D printing can do for medicine already. Https://3dprintingindustry. Com/news/12-things-we-can-3d-print-in-medicine-right-now-42867/ We'll be able to get everything we need in the home. Perhaps for a while surgery will be centralized, But it will quickly come to the home, Possibly with doctors-over-the-wire (VR type of stuff). But eventually all surgeries will be automated by robo-doc. Doctors without borders has shown us that people will give their time to help others in need if they're not financially imprisoned. Imagine what would happen if everyone in the world was suddenly liberated from nonsensical jobs and a massive flood of brain power was redirected to solving the 5 essentials.

4. Shelter: Not unlike Minecraft, We'll soon be able to have digger-bots etch our homes into the mountain sides. We won't need many materials since it's largely a process of removal (which actually produces materials). Energy required for heating/cooling will be greatly diminished because it's the perfect temperature underground. It will be safe from natural disasters and will not diminish the beauty of Earth. Everyone will have private backyards because on each step of the Great Pyramid you can't see the step above or below you. Want more beach front property? Just make more like they did in Dubai. We don't have limited resources in the way most people assume.

5. Food: 3D printed meat is already getting good and pretty soon nobody would have a reason to kill animals for dinner. Automation technologies will grow food underground in sterile grow rooms without the need for pesticides. It's just a matter of water, Electricity, And open source machinery.
Posted by Dreamweaver2828 2 years ago
Dreamweaver2828
# Everyone can only assume it will not
^ (-) You can't say everyone (+) because I comprise everyone.

# Resolving it will require the knowledge of consciousness.
^ I'm not sure what you mean by this. Can you please elaborate?

# I can't, And no one else will find an imperative requiring people to rid itself of desperation by automating the procurement of the 5 essentials within the home (food, Water, Electricity, Medicine, Shelter)
^ (-) You can't say that people don't find it imperative to automate the procurement of the 5 essentials (+) because it's nearly upon us already. There are just forces currently at work intent on subverting so it's hard to see.
Posted by Dreamweaver2828 2 years ago
Dreamweaver2828
# Someone actually needs to act and I do not see this happening.
^ (-) You can't say that nobody is acting to find a way out of the mess (+) because I'm giving everything that I have to make this dream come true. I'm a computer scientist and was a successful entrepreneur, Reaching #849 on the Inc. 5000 in 2007 without rich parents, Funding, Or loans. I stumbled onto the Intelligence Protocol by accident in the course of A. I. Research and I dropped everything else to pursue A. I. 's genuine counterpart. I sold my exotic cars, Watches, And a garage that rivaled iron man to fund a dream that everyone (at least who I knew) called impossible back then. I pushed things too far at one point and even went homeless with a family of six. Two years ago I finally released a prototype of the Human Intelligent Protocol http://hipi. Tech and this year I discovered a missing piece that will allow it to run with blockchain technology on the Ethereum Network. I'm currently raising money to build a captivating DAPP (decentralized application) that will let people make money (or crypto tokens) from debating. Contradictions will be recycled for all time, Never lost to pagination, Eliminating endless repetition on the nightly news and in coffee shop discussions. The information system will be tamper/censor proof and will push everyone to discover ideas which are unanimously mistake-free in the eyes of the collective (like at the moment a rocket is launched). There are some other very smart people now that finally get it. If I'm given an opportunity to explain I can change minds which is why I'm here. I want you and others to know that something big is on its way and we have a lot to look forward to.
Posted by Dreamweaver2828 2 years ago
Dreamweaver2828
# You don't disagree that our politics are too unstable to resolve our predicament without some change: nuclear Armageddon and climate change (the rising of sea levels, And the destruction of earth's ecosystems), But you disagree with the title?
^ I agree with you that things seem to be moving in the wrong direction. Keep in mind that the people who control us benefit from provoking fear as they continue pick pocketing. We've also been living under a paradigm of competition which is fundamentally unintelligent (unless used for entertainment). It's not always the best product that wins. . . Sometimes its the corporation that cuts corners by dumping chemicals in the dirt. The founder of McDonald's said if your competitor is drowning shove a hose in his mouth (that's not working together). I disagree with your title because capitalism and communism will inevitably collapse, Not civilization. I see us moving towards the finish line. It's just a metamorphosis and waiting on the other side is an open source world that runs on collaboration (by means of decentralized mistake-avoidance) which will give rise to plentifulism. The more brain cells there are the better it is for the host. Right now the cells are cancerous. The cure is finding a way to intelligently resolve disagreements through unanimity, Not democracy.

# You're forgetting the change needed (for people to adapt to this) isn't exactly known
^ (-) You can't say that that we don't know what prompts people to adapt (+) because it's clear that people selfishly flock to alternatives when benefits are clearly evident. Just look at the taxi industry, Tower Records, And pay phones. Selfishness is perfectly fine, We can't escape that. We just have to organize things in a way which circumvents greed (taking at someone else's expense).
Posted by FanboyMctroll 2 years ago
FanboyMctroll
I agree that is why I'm going to lead a group of resistance fighters against Skynet and the machines. When Google gets the military contract and Alexa becomes self aware, I will be there to fight the machines and the self driving tanks and Terminators

Judgment Day is coming
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