The Instigator
jrardin12
Pro (for)
The Contender
backwardseden
Con (against)

I Don"t Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist

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Debate Round Forfeited
backwardseden has forfeited round #2.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/22/2019 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 521 times Debate No: 121935
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (14)
Votes (0)

 

jrardin12

Pro

Here is why I cannot be an atheist.

1. Truth about reality is knowable.
2. The opposite of true is false.
3. It is true that the theistic God exists. This is evidenced by the:
a. Beginning of the universe (Cosmological Argument)
b. Design of the universe (Teleological Argument/
Anthropic Principle)
c. Design of life (Teleological Argument)
d. Moral Law (Moral Argument)
4. If God exists, Then miracles are possible.
5. Miracles can be used to confirm a message from God (i. E. , As
acts of God to confirm a word from God).
6. The New Testament is historically reliable. This is evidenced
by:
a. Early testimony
b. Eyewitness testimony
c. Uninvented (authentic) testimony
d. Eyewitnesses who were not deceived
7. The New Testament says Jesus claimed to be God.
8. Jesus" claim to be God was miraculously confirmed by:
a. His fulfillment of many prophecies about himself;
b. His sinless life and miraculous deeds;
c. His prediction and accomplishment of his resurrection.
9. Therefore, Jesus is God.
10. Whatever Jesus (who is God) teaches is true.
11. Jesus taught that the Bible is the Word of God.
12. Therefore, It is true that the Bible is the Word of God (and
anything opposed to it is false).
backwardseden

Con

1. Truth about reality is knowable.
What is "reality"? You don"t even know because you did not describe what reality is unto yourself. Others most certainly perceive "reality" to be different than what you perceive it to be.
2. The opposite of true is false.
What you mean to say is "The opposite of what is true is what is false. "
3. It is true that the theistic God exists. This is evidenced by the:
Well you know what? I originally thought you plagiarized your argument, But NO ONE on this planet would be stupid enough to compose what you did. NO ONE.
Secondly, Which god since there are at least 33, 000 different denominations of christianity alone?
Third, "why believe"? When and if you state something like "god is love" or god is the almighty creator of everything, Including life, You"ve doomed yourself. Anyone from any religion or anyone who is an atheist (just drop the word "god") can say wait a minute and BANG, You"d be thus proven wrong.
a. Beginning of the universe (Cosmological Argument)
How do YOU know there was a beginning? Naturally you didn't prove anything as always.
b. Design of the universe (Teleological Argument/
Anthropic Principle)
Naturally you didn't prove anything once again as always.
Strange isn"t it, But who said that there ---MUST--- be design "of" the universe which would imply that the universe is no more and or that there is no more design needed and or taking place. Better yet that problem can easily be solved by stating "design to the universe". Is that what you meant to say? I"m sure it was. Tell you what" I"ll give you the 3 strike rule. 3 strikes and you are out. You mention something that ignorant and stupid, In other words, I don"t deal with gargantuan crap like that.
What you don"t get is that this universe could have easily have happened naturally. There most certainly does NOT in any way need to be a creator. And then you sink yourself in such a subatomic structure way that its implausible. Why only ONE god? Why not thousands, Millions, Billions, Quadrillions? Why only ONE? Oh and btw, YOUR bible most certainly does NOT in any way recognize YOUR god as being "one". So that"s a HUGE strike 1.
c. Design of life (Teleological Argument)
Naturally you didn't prove anything here for this specific subject once again.
Oh, That"s a good one. Considering the FACT that YOUR scrupulous microscopic insignificant muttering bible is paralyzed and wrong when it comes to the creation/ design for life.
From The Secular Web:
"Genesis 1:12, & 16 Plants began to grow before there was sunlight.
"Genesis 1:29 Every plant and tree which yield seed are given to us by God as good to eat. (Note: This would include poisonous plants such as hemlock, Buckeye pod, Nightshade, Oleander. )
d. "Moral Law (Moral Argument)"
There is 0 morality within YOUR god. None. This unproven thing you call a god in which is only a superior ego god complex in accordance with your bible and nothing else, Committed horrific unspeakable bankrupt completely immoral atrocities such as the murdering of babies, Children and pregnant mothers (abortions in which you sad pathetic so-called christians are supposed to be so against. - A supermassive hypocritical contradiction, In which you so-called christians are supposed to be against, But are really not. Btw, Don"t worry, There"s no such a thing as being a christian. ) in genocide after genocide for absolutely no reason at all except that this terror YOU worship was JEALOUS that other cultures were worshiping other gods and idols. Yeah. YOU can count on it. NOBODY needed to die. YOUR god also issued death warrants on those who were gay, Those who didn't worship him (not wanting to was not an option. It was "believe in me or else", ), And worshiped other gods, Those who cursed at their parents, Those who blasphemed, Those who worked on the sabbath, Those who committed adultery etc etc etc. Btw, The NT is far far farrrrrr worse when it comes to immorality.
4. If God exists, Then miracles are possible.
Naturally you also didn't prove anything to be true here also. What a shocking surprise.
Keyword you used is "if". This means you don"t have the foggiest clue which means you guess at best. Since this is true, #5 is gone and done. That"s such an easy strike 2.
6. The New Testament is historically reliable.
Of course you didn't prove anything here either.
Really? According to what imbecile that was born yesterday still stuck in mommy's womb that has never passed preschool and it making stuff up as he goes?
This is evidenced
by:
a. Early testimony
And ---exactly--- what would that be? (Shhh now don"t wake the sleeping demon on his front perch, Oh whoopsie, Sorry I meant to say porch, Yeah that"s it who doesn't even know how to strike flint to get a fire going and control it.
b. Eyewitness testimony
Is ---never--- reliable. Especially coming from those who may have not even existed who hung around your christ who could not even read or write, Just like your unproven snot nosed christ. AND to make matters all the worse for YOU, The NT was not put into book form until at least 100 years after the death of your supposed messiah. So how is it possible for you and or anyone to know that they are worshiping correctrly AND doing ---exactly---what god wants when in fact its 100% truly impossible simply by language barriers alone? To make matters even worse, This is exactly why religion goes to war one helluva lot more than atheists. Oh but wait corn puff, You didn"t know that. Please try doing a little teeny tiny ounce of research BEFORE doing ignorant debates where you will get 100% squashed. Yep we can easily dismiss the rest of #6.
7. The New Testament says Jesus claimed to be God.
Really? According to what? You? How would you know? Right. Oh I see, Just because YOUR savior runs amok in claiming that he is god, This "correctly" makes him so? I get it. I really do.
Oh and btw, Since YOU think this is true, Prove EVERY SINGLE JEW ON THE PLANET TO BE FALSE and you do it right now you miserable little toadstool f--k.
8. Jesus" claim to be God was miraculously confirmed by:
a. His fulfillment of many prophecies about himself;
No prophecies were EVER confirmed from your bible, Not one god damned little thing. Not one. Here are a series of videos to prove this. I"m sorry. I CAN and HAVE backed up what I"ve stated WITH EVIDENCE. You have no idea what evidence is. And EVERYTHING you"ve stated is NOT in any possible way evidence to prove a supposed "god" exists by any means. This is an easy strike 3. We"re done.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=5YPVtSaqwi4&t=26s Unfilling Prophecy Aron Ra #1
Jewish prophecies of the mashiach
1. He must be jewish
2. He must be a member of the tribe of Judah and must be a direct male descendant of both King Soloman and King David.
3. He must gather the jewish people from exile and return them to Israel.
4. He must rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.
5. He must bring world peace.
6. He must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve one god.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=6lqC8fvIspY - jesus wasn"t jesus (Aron Ra)
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=KXAGpCTiGlQ - The True Core of the jesus Myth (Christopher Hitchens)
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=apS_679ru50 - Did jesus Exist? Https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=9AzwJ9d4i1g - Why christianity is Unreasonable (Richard Carrier)
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=x-slAgzJmdU - Why Does Every Intelligent christian disobey jesus?
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=AJMd5UiTeys - Biggest Lie - The fourth gospel ("The first striking revision in the 4th gospel is that the ministry of jesus has ballooned out from one year to three. The writers not only make a reference not only from one but to three distinct passover festivals. Now was this just a tradition that some early christians held to a three year ministry and others to a one year ministry? Can anyone honestly maintain that whole dialogues could be remembered word for word for many decades and yet believers have no common agreement whether these words were said during one year or during three years? ") Um duh. Do you REALLY THINK jesus existed?
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=lDpEeHD54Mo&t=1397s - The Gospel According to Carrier (Richard Carrier states jesus may have possibly existed, But scrap all the mythology)
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=O5AordEPtok - Proving the Historicity of Jesus? Tracie and David
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=hmKTUOzXRkI&t=188s - Stephanie Thomason vs Matt Dillahunty, Or how not to debate an Atheist! (skip to the 7:00 mark! ) Oh this one is good and Pro is the caller with his furry tongue.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=NAqEmYJcXX8 - What did jesus do for you?
Debate Round No. 1
jrardin12

Pro

1. Truth about reality is knowable.
2. The opposite of true is false.
We demand truth in virtually every area of our lives. We expect to be told the truth when we pick up a reference book, Read an article, Or watch a news story; we want the truth from advertisers, Teachers, And politicians; we assume road signs, Medicine bottles, And food labels reveal the truth. In fact, We demand the truth for almost every facet of life that affects our money, Relationships, Safety, Or health.
On the other hand, Despite our unwavering demands for truth in those areas, Many of us say we aren"t interested in truth when it comes to morality or religion. In fact, Many downright reject the idea that any religion can be true.
There"s a huge contradiction here. Why do we demand truth in everything but morality and religion? Why do we say, "That"s true for you but not for me, " when we"re talking about morality or religion, But we never even think of such nonsense when we"re talking to a stock broker about our money or a doctor about our health?
Our rejection of religious and moral truth is often on volitional rather than intellectual grounds"we just don"t want to be held accountable to any moral standards or religious doctrine. So we blindly accept the self-defeating truth claims of politically correct intellectuals who tell us that truth does not exist; everything is relative; there are no absolutes; it"s all a matter of opinion; you ought not judge; religion is about faith, Not facts!
Truth is not relative but absolute. If something is true, It"s true for all people, At all times, In all places. All truth claims are absolute, Narrow, And exclusive. Just think about the claim "everything is true. " That"s an absolute, Narrow, And exclusive claim. It excludes its opposite (i. E. , It claims that the statement "everything is not true" is wrong). In fact, All truths exclude their opposites. Even religious truths.
Truth is discovered, Not invented. It exists independent of anyone"s knowledge of it. (Gravity existed prior to Newton. )
Truth is transcultural; if something is true, It is true for all people, In all places, At all times (2+2=4 for everyone, Everywhere, At every time).
Truth is unchanging even though our beliefs about truth change. (When we began to believe the earth was round instead of flat, The truth about the earth didn"t change, Only our belief about the earth changed. )
Beliefs cannot change a fact, No matter how sincerely they are held. (Someone can sincerely believe the world is flat, But that only makes that person sincerely mistaken. )
Truth is not affected by the attitude of the one professing it. (An arrogant person does not make the truth he professes false. A humble person does not make the error he professes true. )
All truths are absolute truths. Even truths that appear to be relative are really absolute. (For example, "I, Jrardin12, Feel warm on May 23, 2019" may appear to be a relative truth, But it is actually absolutely true for everyone, Everywhere that jrardin12 had the sensation of warmth on that day. )
In short, Contrary beliefs are possible, But contrary truths are not possible. We can believe everything is true, But we cannot make everything true.
Truth is not dependent on our feelings or preferences. Something is true whether we like it or not.
Contrary to popular opinion, Major world religions do not "all teach the same things. " They have essential differences
and only superficial agreements. All religions cannot be true, Because they teach opposites.
Jews, Christians, And Muslims believe in different versions of a theistic God, While most Hindus and New Agers believe that everything that exists is part of an impersonal, Pantheistic force they call God.
Many Hindus believe that evil is a complete illusion, While Christians, Muslims, And Jews believe that evil is real.
Christians believe that people are saved by grace while all other religions, If they believe in salvation at all, Teach some kind of salvation by good works (the definition of "good" and what one is saved from varies greatly).
Since, Logically, All religions cannot be true, We cannot subscribe to the new definition of tolerance that demands that we
accept the impossible idea that all religious beliefs are true. We are to respect the beliefs of others, But lovingly tell them the truth.

People often get their beliefs from their parents, Friends, Childhood religion, Or culture. Sometimes they simply formulate
their beliefs on the basis of their feelings alone. While such beliefs could be true, It"s also possible they may not be. The
only way to be reasonably certain is to test beliefs by the evidence. And that is done by utilizing sound philosophical principles including those found in logic and science.
Logic tells us that opposites cannot be true at the same time in the same sense. Logic is part of reality itself, And is thus the same in America, India, And everywhere in the universe.
We can see that Hume is not skeptical about skepticism, And Kant is not agnostic about agnosticism. Therefore, Their views defeat themselves. It is possible to know truths about God.
Many truths about God can be known by his effects, Which we can observe. Through many observations (induction) we
can draw reasonable conclusions (deductions) about the existence and nature of God.
Truth in morality and religion has temporal and maybe even eternal consequences. Apathy and ignorance can be fatal.
What you don"t know, Or don"t care to know, Can hurt you.
So why should anyone believe anything at all? Because they have evidence to support those beliefs, And because beliefs
have consequences.

In the next round I will rebuttal any of your arguments from your rebuttal. And the I will show you that a theistic God exists and the evidence that supports it.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Anonymous03 2 years ago
Anonymous03
bruh imagine spamming links instead of saying anything
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
about faith. I think faith is a TERRIBLE way to determine what is true or not true. I don"t want to just believe. Let"s go out and know, Or try to know. And if we can"t find the answer instead of making one up or taking it on faith we say that we are simply honest with others and simply say it "I don"t know". I hope to one day know and make that JOURNEY about an evidenced based exploration of facts and a journey towards knowledge with no faith at all in play. " Seth Andrews
-----
Now here's a question for you. . .
Why would you believe in something, Namely a god/ religion without evidence? Don't you think it would be wise to first have that evidence and then believe?
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
@galaxygirl - "Why would you believe anything on faith? Faith isn"t a pathway to truth. Every religion has some sort of faith. If faith is your pathway you can"t distinguish between christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Any of these others. How is it that you use ---reason--- in every of the other endeavor in your life and then when it comes to the ultimate truth, The most important truth your"re saying that faith is required and how is that supposed to reflect on a god? What kind of a god requires faith instead of evidence? " Matt Dillahunty

"Faith is the reason people give when they don"t have evidence. " Matt Dillahunty

"Faith can be very very dangerous, And deliberately to implant it into the vulnerable mind of an innocent child is a grievous wrong. " Richard Dawkins

"Faith is the great cop-out, The great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is the belief in spite of, Even perhaps because of, The lack of evidence. " Richard Dawkins

"Its called faith because its not knowledge. " Christopher Hitchens

https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=XcB_g_ElIdQ&t=339s - Another Appeal To Faith - The Atheist Experience
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=72l6IeEFhPE&t=2996s - Faith is not an Understandable Way to Truth
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=oSXLMxMYve8 - "We all have faith. . . "
"In order to make a case for something that is the the result of intelligent design, You would need to demonstrate a designer that has intent towards a goal and provide evidence for that. Can you do that? " Matt Dillahunty
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=8w5ccgEYJns - Resurrection, Faith, Personal experience as evidence | Chris - ID 7/7 Seth Andrews
"If we genuinely know something, There"s no need to take it on faith. And if you"re going to accept it on faith, Then you"re going to have to play in the arena where every other religion, Every other belief system, Every other truth claim, Playing the faith card gets equal treatment otherwise you"re being a hypocrite
Posted by DeletedUser 2 years ago
DeletedUser
It takes faith to be atheist, It takes faith to be theist, Which is why I pick science. I believe that it is possible that God exists, But there isn't a lot of evidence supporting that particular hypothesis.
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=wXHJEfRC3ns - 101 Facts about christianity
*25 Trinity
*26 "It was around this time in the early 4th century when the oldest known surviving complete copy of the bible was created known as the Codex Vaticanus. " (continuing) "consists of 759 leaves of vellum in uncial letters and features a 3 column division format without word division, Punctuation or page numbers. Sounds like a great read. " I can only imagine. Now how is it possible for ---any--- correct interpretations to be accurate and instilled upon ---any--- society and or anybody that is reading the bible today with this junk?
*58 Mormonism
*59 Jehovah"s witnesses
60 Taiping Rebellion - Hong Xiuquan who knew of himself to be the younger brother of christ and at least 20 million died
*69 2010 Catholic Church reports a sum of 97 billion $
*73 "2001 World christian Encyclopedia counts 33, 830 denominations of christianity which has likely risen since then. - "Crazy to think that one of these versions is the correct one"
*75 reasons for the decline of christianity
*79 "70% of anyone under 30 in UK do not have a religion, 91% in Czech Republic"
*90 (tee hee)
Posted by missmedic 2 years ago
missmedic
I don't rely on faith, I have knowledge. But no one has knowledge of how the universe began. Except religion
Posted by jrardin12 2 years ago
jrardin12
http://www. Ncregister. Com/blog/scottericalt/we-nee

I hope this helps you.
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
@jrardin12 - No. I'm not going to make it easy a$$hole. You look it up in which you don't even know how to do a simple little search. Time for my nap. And time for you to completely disappear off of my radar. Ta ta.
Posted by jrardin12 2 years ago
jrardin12
Well @backwardseden, Tell me about just one Christian denomination the doesn't believe in the same God and doesn't use the Bible. Give me proof.
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
@jrardin12 - You are really not that bright are you? Why nope. Rather than posing dastardly deeds that are of imbecilic natures behind where you scratch when you get an itch and not using that beam of light for that on and off switch when you get an idea that tinkles in your brain, "I would like to respond to Cons comment on their being 33, 000 denominations within Christianity (although I would disagree with that number)" well snookums with the snowflake armpits why don't you look it up? Jeez. And then you give yourself a backward hickey nose job in stating something that you point blank obviously don't know BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T DONE ANY F--KING RESEARCH ON IT "they all believe in the same God and read the same Bible" 100% WRONG. This is precise to the letter why you and so so so many others here on DDO have no genuine friends or loved ones. NONE. You have to point blank make up things as you go and you guess and you open your maw when it should stay stapled shut. What idiot wants to knowingly hang around with someone like you who point blank doesn't know what they are talking about and invents excuses especially to those that know better and have done actual research on the subject(s) that you clearly have not? AND you cannot present any evidence to support your idiotic claims.
So I leave you with one question, Just one. . . Why do you think that your christ is the most fought after figure in the entire existence of the human race? Btw, Don't even think about stating that this is not true either. Ta ta.
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