The Instigator
TheRedPlanet
Con (against)
The Contender
anc2006
Pro (for)

Is money really needed

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/5/2020 Category: Economics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 432 times Debate No: 123806
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

TheRedPlanet

Con

Money isn't really needed. If we want something, We just need to trade back services or goods of equal value.
anc2006

Pro

This is my 2rd try of doing this. I want to shorten my argument.

Scenario 1: You sell 50 pounds of steel to someone. He gives you 1, 000 pounds of silver. You know how rare it is but he does not. He think steel are rarer. People doesn't know, He trades the steel for triple the price of diamonds, And then use what he got(which was a few pieces of cow turd) to trade the entire country. Then anarchy began throughout the country. Meanwhile you use the 1, 000 pound of silver, Which people think it is useless, And you trade back a square inch of fabric. You then use the inch of fabric to the place where people investigate the artstyle of where you live. You get a few oxen of pay. Then you butcher the oxen and sell the meat. You get shining diamonds, Which the local boy thought this is just their mother's kidney stone. Great, What I talked about, You would cringe. Because you can set the value to whatever you want as long as people believe in it. People would try to bribe the officials in even more ridiculous measures such as giving up 30, 000 acres of empty land for the king to live in order to let the traders to break down the current palace. Thus social anarchy. And because prices are going crazy while being not exactly defined, The financial factor would also be berserk.

Scenario 2: Let's say they defined the prices in whatever there are, And a pound of steel costs this much. Then you cut to weigh, Then to trade. You want to cut W grams. It gave you 50 grams more. It is not exactly fair. Then you would cut and then accidents happen: You then cut 1, 000 grams off the steel. Then you micro-adjust the measures until it is finally really fair. Then you find the other trader slept to ice yesterday because you've been cutting metal all night, And one deal is less efficient than what it could be. Let's say, What if they cut it into equal pieces so they can use it as standardized units of measurement? Ei, That is money. And that is why it is needed. Money began as equal shares of the same stuff. You don't go to Walmarts and see this salmon fleet costing $6, 000 and the other one costs $0. 02 while being identical in size and quality. Money exist to regulate finance and deals. They objectify value. You can abolish one type of currency, But you cannot abolish the whole money system.
Debate Round No. 1
TheRedPlanet

Con

[You sell 50 pounds of steel to someone. He gives you 1, 000 pounds of silver. You know how rare it is but he does not. He think steel are rarer. People doesn't know, He trades the steel for triple the price of diamonds, And then use what he got(which was a few pieces of cow turd) to trade the entire country. Then anarchy began throughout the country. ] First of all, HOW IN THE WORLD DOES THIS WORK! You trade steel for a few cow pies! And then buy the whole country! People are smarter than that.
Ok, But what about services?
Consider this, A man trades 5 pounds of iron for a five pound sword with a wooden hilt. That extra half pound or so was for the wood right? So it was a fair trade. But say someone traded two pounds of silver for a doctor's visit. The two pounds is for his materials that he used. Also, Your argument has a lot of flaws and what-ifs. What if the person who bought the silver thought silver was valuable, Or the person selling the silver had no need for it?
anc2006

Pro

This is very simple to refute.

Let's say, You have plenty of beer, And you own its company, And you want to sell it. You would sell it to Korea and China and India, Not Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands. This is because Germany and such produces domestic beers sufficient for its own citizen. Not the case? Well this is just an example. This is the same reason why you would sell oil to Uruguay and not Saudi Arabia, And sell paint to seeing artists not blind mathematicians.

Now imagine a place in the ancients where the diamonds are so rich on one place and then barely scattered in other places. The people in this town draws diamonds from mines everyday as their occupation and carves skulls on cut diamonds on an hourly basis. All diamond products here are about the same price as fabric in the present day US in pretty much every single ratio. Their everything was produced in their vicinity and no civilization ever claimed them. They were loned out until much later when someone else got there and gave them something only they have: Electric lamp(keep in mind this is still a civilization that can trade without money). They think this is so cool so they gave 1/8 of all their diamond products to him. Later he sold this at California and gained $200M. Yes, This could happen if money were banned. Value of something is subjective. Without a standardized unit(which is money. Dollar, Yen, Whatever it is), The owner would not even remember how much this thing worth after 3 seconds of a successful purchase, Consider where there is stuff, There will be balance. And the only way of balance is currency(money). Money is needed for a trade. Technically what I consider X grams of metal also counts as money consider it is standardized and easy to use when the right materials.

What I had was just exaggeration. But things like this would also happen. Let's say if there is no currency their trade rates would be different. In town a, 1 imported sword worth 2 domestic swords. In town b, 1 imported sword also costs 2 domestic swords. Then comes a millennial in: Every time they travel between each town, The amount of sword double, And the "money" would be pretty unfair. This is why a standardized currency comes to place: to give an objective price. The officer takes both swords and compare: Hmm, Both should equal same amount of value. He said. Then there is a fair price between these two. It is objective instead of too subjective, As subjectivity could eventually lead to anarchy because there are just too many wacky opinions that are meant to occupy a large position.

Plus, If EVERY 5 pound of iron equals to a sword, It IS money technically. How is it not money? Your sense of money only are bank notes, Checks, Coins, Credit cards and PayPal? Heh, These are not the only types of money ever existed. Back then everything could be traded with an objective price. These are still "money" as long as it is collective, Fair and objective.

And then, Present day. Present day. Hmm. How would the world operate without money? Tell me a REAL scenario. Try to knock me down. So far, The capitalist and socialist realms have international and domestic currencies respectively. What type of society does not rely on ANY form of currency?
Debate Round No. 2
TheRedPlanet

Con

My understanding is we don't actually need a specific type of currency, Like dollars or euros. You have won this debate. Congrats.
anc2006

Pro

No more points. Great day to you.
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Idealopposition 2 years ago
Idealopposition
Continued again final. . . . . So if you do not have a skill where you know how to manufacture or build, Political conversation is the way to make government more convenient for everyone. Accountants need to eat just like banks need to pay there employees, Where does the money come from to pay the president, The congressman, Politics pays for itself, So getting involved you will understand how economy works for politicians. And so for economic justice for the working man, When your really desperate there is always more to do. Encourage a student to mentor the working man the student will benefit, So when the student becomes a professional let him go back to the working man to live the same story again, Both business will profit because teamwork is the success in business
Posted by Idealopposition 2 years ago
Idealopposition
Today everything is convienance and so were going back to old ideas to understand how we humans evolved into society today. Going on a caravan either in Africa with camels or a rally through the swiss laps with motorcycles, We find ourselves in travel mode. When we reach a place either Egypt or transylvania we know there is going to be a trade hub there and thanks to convienance we don't have to have a storage camel to sell for supplies in Egypt and whatever is really going on in transylvania with those bikers I'm sure theres a bunch of heavy metal that makes no sense in this evolved world. So in communities we have coop markets and farmer markets. The coops are ran by some hippies who lived natural for a long time and when they got tired of traveling they told all there friends they wanted to start a business so they opened a store and they sell there friends fruits vegetables and magical herbs. If some exbikers wanted to retire and start a business there idea of natural is different than the hippie. The biker is a mechanic so he might open a salvage yard and he and all his friends could put old bikes and make profit by selling carburetors and mufflers of some classic machinery. Economy is the trade a person knows. If a person goes to college the person is smart but the person who grew up on a ranch has many skills. Both student and laborer become professionals with age, But it happens when we want to be economic. Money the convienance is good because the seller sets a price based on supply and demand. Marketers make things different than they are so consumers must be cautious on how and where to buy. When students want to trade school supplies for products, That's entirely up to the salesman. As so when the laborer wants to trade an he crafted, That's entirely up to the salesman. Moving economy into politics party members draft a bill proposing there should be more markets where my uncle rancher can trade with my grandma hippie because money don't have the value tha
Posted by Yoshikage69Kira 2 years ago
Yoshikage69Kira
The reason why we have currency is because a bargain system is far less effective.

If I had a donkey and I wanted to buy a sheep from you then in a world without money, The person with the sheep would also have happen to want a donkey for the trade to work.

Now in an economy with a unit of exchange I could sell my donkey to someone who wants a donkey for some money and go to the person with the sheep and buy it of him. We may not need money to exist to live but an economy as effective as ours couldn't exist. Their is a reason why money started being used all over the ancient world. It's one of the best inventions ever.
Posted by anc2006 2 years ago
anc2006
My stand is that we potentially can survive without bank notes, But it is seemingly impossible to survive without balance of currency.
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