The Instigator
IsaiahWood
Pro (for)
Tied
7 Points
The Contender
zapshe
Con (against)
Tied
7 Points

Is there proof of God?

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/20/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,273 times Debate No: 123485
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (61)
Votes (2)

 

IsaiahWood

Pro

I've heard a lot about this topic, And frankly, I think an open discussion about the topic is a demand. I'm a 16 year old christian who wants to talk about God, Simple as that.
The proof ill start with is 3 things, Science (yeah, Crazy right), Scripture, And simple logic.

Im happy to debate anyone and I hope it goes well, I don't know what to expect in this debate, But Im excited to do it :)
Also, I want to start with what scripture says and if its reliable (it says a lot). If its ok with the opponent.
zapshe

Con

Accepting your debate.

No, There's no proof for God. Religion would be science if provable, But it isn't. This is why you say it's your faith, And not fact. This is the reason why there are so many different religions to begin with, None of them have any merit or evidence.

Moreover, All religions, Including Christianity, Have been proven to be false. No religious person accepts this, But it's simply true.

Bible Contradictions:

https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=RB3g6mXLEKk
https://rationalwiki. Org/wiki/Biblical_contradictions
https://www. Atheists. Org/activism/resources/biblical-contradictions/

Just to show a few.

Also, Think this: If God wasn't real, Would you still believe in God? Answer: Yes. Your faith has nothing to do with reality, It's literally independent of the facts.

Finally, Do you believe in Evolution? The Big Bang? These are all facts, And if you don't believe them, Understand I can prove them to you to the point where if you don't believe them once I have, You're simply lying to yourself.

Good luck.
Debate Round No. 1
IsaiahWood

Pro

None of your links work, Just a heads up.
Because Christians say "faith in God" does not mean we believe him for no scientific or logical reason. Me personally I believe in God because its hard to believes were just a factory of neurons and mindless animals wandering through the universe, Temporal souls with no true purpose(common atheistic belief). So ill give you some reasons.

(this will be hard for many people to believe). There are millions of scientist that claim the world is millions of years old. But i got proof its approximately 6 thousands years. Carbon 14 dating. It takes approximately 5700 years for carbon 14 to be untraceable in the bones of living mammals and organisms. . Atheist believe dinosaurs were destroyed 2 million years ago, Which means there would be NO carbon 14 in a dinosaur bone right? Listen to this quote from ICR.
https://www. Icr. Org/article/rethinking-carbon-14-dating-what-does

"14 C has been detected in organic specimens (coal, Wood, Seashells, Etc. , Containing carbon from formerly living organisms) that are supposedly hundreds of millions of years old"but no detectable 14C should be present in specimens that are even a little more than 100, 000 years old! Nearly anyone can verify this for themselves using basic multiplication and division. " The article goes a lot deeper and explains the biblical/scientific proof of God.

I would encourage readers to read through the article in whole, Its a great article.

Logic. We all came from somewhere, But where did the first person come from. Evolutionists say "apes" or other specimens, But if that was proven wrong than It would have to mean God. Because it would mean Humans are unique in the world, And were not made like animals world. . . Were made in Gods image. This does 2 things, It values humans on a extremely high level, Which means things like abortion and undervaluing people are wrong. And second, It mean are moral virtues and values did not come from "millions of years of experience" (Sam Harris) but from the bible or divine revelation to individuals, Or through scripture.

Now you could say "morality (right and wrong) did not only come from the bible, But from knowledge as a human, Everyone knows not to murder" and that my friend is why I believe i am made by Gods image, Because animals do not no not know murder, But people do. . . Made in Gods likeness with moral standards.

Also I believe the bible is perfect, Divine document 100 percent. Literally not one single imperfection in the bible. Many people argue about how God is a homophobic, Sodom and Gomorrah. Or in Leviticus where it clearly states homosexuality is a sin. Or when it says in the new testament "homosexuals--. . Will not inherit the kingdom of God". And I say. . . . YES. Homosexuality is wrong biblical. God made man and women for a MAN and a WOMEN. And when you go against that you are directly going against God. 100 years ago that was normal, But now not so much.

I am ecstatic for your response thank-you
zapshe

Con

"None of your links work"

This website breaks the links by adding uppercase characters and spaces. You have to undo the magic and the link will work.

"Because Christians say "faith in God" does not mean we believe him for no scientific or logical reason"

Logical Reasoning? Maybe. Scientific reasoning? Definitely not. I can give you reasoning for anything, But it doesn't relate to reality. For example, It's reasonable that if someone drinks bleach, You'd want them to throw it up. But in fact, That's probably the worst course of action. This is why there's no SCIENTIFIC REASONING, Because science depends on reason + evidence in order to make claims. To say God is real, You may look around and find reasoning to backup your claim, But no evidence. In fact, The evidence goes against your claim.

"There are millions of scientist that claim the world is millions of years old"

I do find that hard to believe, For several reasons which I'll get into in my other address. But either way, Even if the Earth was millions of years old, That would still disprove the Bible entirely.

"Atheist believe dinosaurs were destroyed 2 million years ago, Which means there would be NO carbon 14 in a dinosaur bone right? "

Not necessarily. The same way if someone's been dead for thousands of years you might expect their bones to be dust, But that's not always the case (even without fossilization).

"Listen to this quote from ICR. "

I'll listen to NO quote from ICR - they're as unreliable as you can get:

https://mediabiasfactcheck. Com/institute-for-creation-research-icr/

^They're rated HORRIBLY for factual reporting and HIGH in pseud-science.

"Its a great article. "

Because it's factual or because it agrees with your own side? Dating methods are VERY accurate. Not because Carbon-14 dating hits the mark every single time, But because when dating SEVERAL things gets you a similar result, That's when you know that you've gotten accurate dating results - especially when combined with other dating methods.

"Logic. We all came from somewhere, But where did the first person come from. Evolutionists say "apes" or other specimens, But if that was proven wrong than It would have to mean God. "

Even if God was real and evolution was shown to be false, That would not prove we came from God. The odds that God of any religion on Earth exists is 0%, And the odds that we came from a divine being are roughly the same. So there would still be a gap between the claim and the evidence provided.

Now, Evolution will NOT be disproven. Why? Simple. The same reason the Earth revolving around the sun won't be disproven. There's simply too much evidence and there can't possibly be any other explanation.

"Also I believe the bible is perfect"

It is perfect, A perfect example of how to not write a book. You're also a perfect example of something, How religion can taint a mind.

I wanted to get MUCH deeper into these topics, But you've limited the character limit.
Debate Round No. 2
IsaiahWood

Pro

I will make a larger character limit later, I clearly underestimate where this debate would Go.

Because a random website say ICR is wrong means nothing. You clearly claim that every thing you say is objectively true(as i claim as well) but clearly that is not the case. ICR is an organization that has founded genius minds and people who study the bible and science (more than I ever will) and found (through unbiased true literature and science) the truth.

You asked because its "factual, Or believes with your side" both DUH. I would not believe people because they say the same as me, But also because its fact. If your read the quote and article you will realize there not making stuff up, And mixing truth with their own ideologies(as most scientist do, Like Dawkins or Darwin).

You make A LOT of claims without any evidence, I don't like your format of debating because of how little you talk about each statement, You complained (fairly) that there were not enough letters to use. If you said half of what you pointed out about me, And expounded on it more, Then your argument would have been more convincing (just an add on, Not really relevant on the debate). So here is what you said.

"Not necessarily. The same way if someone's been dead for thousands of years you might expect their bones to be dust, But that's not always the case (even without fossilization). "
Did not expound or provide enough info on the topic, An accusation without and foundation.

"I'll listen to NO quote from ICR - they're as unreliable as you can get:"
That's just stupid, If you objectively said what was wrong in the article we could have had a conversation, But instead you refuse to read it because of a random website.

What you did say was good is you commentary on carbon 14 dating. . . . Kind ave. Because according to scientist, It is impossible for you to find carbon in dinosaur bones, Overall atheistic scientist believe that. "But carbon-14 dating won't work on dinosaur bones. The half-life of carbon-14 is only 5, 730 years, So carbon-14 dating is only effective on samples that are less than 50, 000 years old. " But yet its in their, Its objectively true, I've seen it in a microscope and thousands of people prove it.

Even if God was real and evolution was shown to be false, That would not prove we came from God. The odds that God of any religion on Earth exists is 0%, And the odds that we came from a divine being are roughly the same. So there would still be a gap between the claim and the evidence provided.

You said nothing of how you got your percentages, Where the gap comes from, Only claims with no evidence.

"It is perfect, A perfect example of how to not write a book. You're also a perfect example of something, How religion can taint a mind. "

You said nothing to proof this point either, Science is reason plus study and observation, You said only mindless emotion drive claims. I thought that is what a christian does, Not an atheist.
zapshe

Con

"Because a random website say ICR is wrong means nothing"

Because a random website says Carbon dating is inaccurate means nothing too.

Look at this B*LLSHIT:

https://www. Icr. Org/research

This is as bias BS as you can get, Under the guise of being science. If you can't understand why a bias source is a waste of time, I'll let time solve that issue.

"I would not believe people because they say the same as me"

Clearly *rolls eyes*

Moreover, Carbon dating is a METHOD, Not something you can do once, Find to be wrong, And then walk away thinking you've disproved carbon dating. There's many steps and many specimens that get dated with many variables taken into account. Also, Carbon dating is a single method of radiometric dating, And not even the specific version used to date the Earth (they used uranium-lead isotope dating).

God's existence is low - simple explanation ahead. The odds of unicorns existing is low, But not 0. If we can't disprove it, Why's it low? Because Unicorns are a man-made concept, The odds of them being real are low by the fact that someone made it up with no evidence. The same goes for God. Again, Evidence is NOT the same as a logical path.

The odds of the Christian God being true IS 0%, Because the Bible is too contradictory and stupid overall to be from God.

As for Carbon 14 on dinosaur bones, Only creationist weirdos claim to have found it. Here's where you should read on that:

https://physics. Stackexchange. Com/questions/154588/is-it-a-problem-with-radiometric-dating-that-carbon-14-is-found-in-materials-dat

"You said nothing to proof this point either, Science is reason plus study and observation, You said only mindless emotion drive claims. I thought that is what a christian does, Not an atheist. "

I linked the sources for Bible contradictions, I don't know what else you want from this. A book has loop and plot holes. I made no "mindless" emotional drive claims, Whatever that's supposed to be. You're referring to an ancient book with NO credibility.

If we started this debate with the facts, There would have been nothing to debate. I'm not even going to try and make detailed arguments on all these points with this character limit.

The Bible is objectively false. It's wrong in science, History, Astronomy, Etc. . . You name it, The Bible did it wrong. If you need examples, Then you clearly haven't read the Bible.
Debate Round No. 3
IsaiahWood

Pro

Look Zapshe, Every scientist that I know that is not a christian says God does not exist. Every christian scientist that i know say s God is proven through science, Like intelligent design in the universe. Which ones biased, You say christian scientist are, I'm saying when it relates to God and evolution there simply wrong, Not even biased.

Also you did not say why carbon 14 dating in dinosaur bones is wrong, Only Biased. Me personally if "BIASED" information is true, Does not change the truth in the information, The only thing you can do is call it a lie. If you read the article, Youl see the author explains it for every person to here, Not only christian, And uses many common scientific ideas to prove his point.

Another thing, I read the links, What I want you to do is list them in this debate by You, So we can go through them and I can explain. Because what a lot of people do in using the bible is rob the verse from the contest, Which can in-turn lose its meaning, Not playing a semantic game just true.

A great example of this is this quote ""I would not believe people because they say the same as me". You robbed it of its context, Now it sounds stupid. But that said, You do the exact same thing, Look at people who agree with you, Which you should. So why you put that in there confused me to be honest.

When you talked in the carbon dating paragraph, Your right. That's why I applied the concept specifically to dinosaurs. There are many other ways to date, But because of the character limit (if that was the debate I lost already LOL) thats just not gonna happen

History, If Jesus is not enough evidence and his Resurrection I do not know what is. It can't be that those people were making up seeing Jesus because they had nothing to gain but torture from the Sanhedrin, Roman Rejection, Persecution (saint Peter got crucified backwards). And the 500 hundred people did exist through written documentation of some of the individuals dating back to around the same time.

Another thing, Theirs logic against unicorn existing, Obviously not a relevant topic because it is man made and stupid. God there is logic behind it, There is historical evidence behind it, There is science behind it. . . Intelligent design. To add, Intelligence does not come from nothing, Every baby with out a teacher would be a baby for there whole life. But for some reason when we apply that concept on a creation scale, Its completely ignore, Instead it "nothing came out of everything" argument, Which i will elaborate on next round

Now i just proved you evidence(or from your side potential evidence)with history, Science, Logic. . . What else do you need.

But now its my turn to accuse. The logic that everything came out of nothing. We have has this debate in other commentaries so Ill just summarize. Nothing can do nothing, Because its nothing. That is essential, My argument, Yours. Nothing can actually do something which can create the universe. Tell me something, Which one makes sens
zapshe

Con

"Every scientist that I know that is not a christian says God does not exist. Every christian scientist that i know say s God is proven through science, Like intelligent design in the universe. Which ones biased"

This statement is very telling, Because regardless of faith, No scientists disagree on gravity. Moreover, It's very simple, If God has been proven, Then God would be part of science. God ISN'T proven.

"Me personally if "BIASED" information is true, Does not change the truth in the information"

No, Bias information is INCORRECT information, Like this: "I saw her punch him! " Well, Did they see her get attacked first? There's so much of the story left out and the information isn't accurate or complete. Reading from that website doesn't tell me anything. For all I know the Carbon-14 found was from the room itself or didn't exist in the levels that we'd find suspicious. And there are preservation methods that we know can make something get preserved naturally for even millions of years:

https://allthatsinteresting. Com. . . .

"You robbed it of its context"

I'm debating YOU, You know the context.

"That's why I applied the concept specifically to dinosaurs"

Where it also doesn't apply:

"After the samples were submitted by the laboratory, Miller et al. Were informed by a professor from the University of Arizona that the samples were heavily contaminated, And that no collagen (where most of the carbon for 14C dating comes from) was present. "

from:

https://physics. Stackexchange. Com. . .

"If Jesus is not enough evidence and his Resurrection I do not know what is"

Jesus is dead. Prove otherwise WITHOUT the Bible, Something we already know is not credible:

https://www. News24. Com. . .

Moreover, The Bible is written long after, Translated from who knows how many manuscripts, And from eyewitness accounts: the LEAST credible form of information - eyewitnesses. The amount of people released from prison due to DNA evidence after being put in there due to eyewitness testimonies is eyeopening.

"Obviously not a relevant topic because it is man made and stupid"

You just described God.

"God there is logic behind it"

I'll say it again, Logic DOESN'T equal evidence or truth.

"for some reason when we apply that concept on a creation scale, Its completely ignore"

Did you know that the laws of physics you live daily life interacting with barely applies down at the quantum level? So your point is invalid since your argument is, "Why doesn't everything work the way I think it does! ? " And simply, Physics doesn't care about making things easy for you to mentally digest.

"Now i just proved"
How? You only made a lot of claims.
Debate Round No. 4
IsaiahWood

Pro

I just found an essential flaw to your arguments, You put too much trust on people. What you don't see is how much deception is in the scientific community. Scripture clearly states that Men are not trust worthy, And that more than anything money and fame is their pursuit. "none is righteous, No not one" & 2 Timothy "For men will be lovers of self, Lovers of money, Boastful, Arrogant, Revilers, Disobedient to parents, Ungrateful, Unholy, Unloving"

Now a add question if you will, If man made the bible, Why would they talk about the flaws of man, To DEMOTE themselves. No, What is means is that scripture "is inspired by the Holy Spirit" which mean this essentially, People were the pencils, God was the author Quite simple actually.

You said Logic does not equal evidence or truth, That was a mistake. Because as humans we interpret everything including science. I gave you reasoning any you pretty much said "you don't use Logic, Use evidence" (which I provided in the past rounds and you pretty much said that it was wrong. . . Essentially). Logic is what makes up are being, What makes an atheist and atheist, A christian a christian, Muslim a Muslim, Literally everything is founded off of logic. Your illogical

Is it logical for nothing to do something, According to you, You say "No logic, Only science" than it leads to your belief that the universe originated from nothing. That's INSANE because nothing can doo. . Nothing. This is the same belief that Richard Dawkins believed this as well, Watch this link and tell be his "scientific reasoning. I also noticed you did not include a response to my last accusation against you belief, In the last paragraph.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=-AQvWrX-mKg

"Moreover, The Bible is written long after, Translated from who knows how many manuscripts, And from eyewitness accounts: the LEAST credible form of information - eyewitnesses. "
There are a couple of issues with this. I've have observed that the farther we get from history, The less people believe things. Now in a sense that's good, But that is a cheap argument for the book with more manuscripts and historical evidence that any other book in History. For example, If you look back in history, (not through the bible) we know that Jesus died when he was 33, Which happened to be AD 33. Which proves the day he was born on the day between BC and AD. That is not only my belief but even atheist scholars belief as well.

Here's proof that the witnesses of the death and Resurrection were unbiased, Because that had no reason to be Biased, Jesus was martyred on a cross in front of thousands, And NOBODY wanted to even think about him after, Because of fear of death of the Romans (who ruled that age) and the Sanhedrin (Jewish Rulers). Plus, There are nearly 22000 manuscripts of the bible, (not fully including the dead sea scrolls) which makes it the most well formatted and backed up document in history. And they all date back consistently to Israel, Historical events and etc.
zapshe

Con

I couldn't face palm hard enough to express my disappointment. So scientists are untrustworthy. . . Why? Because scripture written by people said so. NICE. When scientists cure diseases, Discover new innovations that lead to better technology, Etc. , You'll eat it all up. You'll go to the doctor and you'll buy the electronics. When scientists discover the age of the Earth, Evolution, And the beginning of the universe, They now must be corrupt simpletons who only care about money and fame. All this why? Because if it goes against the Bible, You have to make-believe that it's wrong. It's honestly pathetic.

"Why would they talk about the flaws of man"

I've never read a philosophical book that DIDN'T talk about the flaws of people at the very least. Some go as far as to say we're horrible by nature.

"God was the author Quite simple actually"

How do you know the difference between someone who just felt like writing and someone who was truly inspired by God? You can't, So don't bother racking your brain.

"Logic is what makes up are being, What makes an atheist and atheist, A christian a christian, Muslim a Muslim, Literally everything is founded off of logic. Your illogical"

And the facepalms continue. You're religious for a simple reason, You fear death. You've been cajoled at a young age. Logic doesn't equal reality - I proved this to you with the bleach analogy. You need logic AND evidence, And the evidence needs to be objectively TRUE. Meaning that the evidence is ACTUALLY evidence outside of our own brains.

"Is it logical for nothing to do something, According to you"

It's logical to deny facts if they don't line up with primitive reasoning, According to you. The details I could go into are vast on this (not that you're willing to learn). The possibilities for how our universe could come to existence is endless. For example, There's no reason to assume that the laws of physics apply outside our own universe. There could be universes made all the time in a dimension outside our own.

"That is not only my belief but even atheist scholars belief as well. "

At least link a source when you make stupid claims.

"Here's proof that the witnesses of the death and Resurrection were unbiased, Because that had no reason to be Biased"

LOL. Good one! Nice! Now why did unrelated witnesses put people in prison? People they had no "reason" to be bias about? Because bias ISN'T by reason you nimrod. It's like I'm talking to a middle schooler.

If you wanna believe that the Bible is accurate and a perfect book or whatever, Then go ahead. Frankly, The truth that exists outside your own brain will continue to contradict you. I asked for proof of God and I got. . . . Nothing. And from nothing, Came your undying faith - ironic.

Punishment For:

Worshiping Another God
Adultry
Not Listening to Your Parents
Having Gay Sex

Death!

And Christians just love to ignore the old testament as if that doesn't apply anymore to their religion.
Debate Round No. 5
61 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by WhoPutYouOnThePlanet 2 years ago
WhoPutYouOnThePlanet
"You don't need to imagine someone who doesnt understand common sense because you are one yourself ;) nothing makes nothing, Understand that. Everything created has a creator. "

Theists are fun when they try to use logic and fail, Stop special pleading god from the very logic your trying to imploy. Also how do we know if something was created? There are many complex things that clearly had no divine intervention, Like snowflakes and crystals, The reason we are able to to determine if something is created or not is if we have examples of said being created, For example.

Observed example of building being built - Yes
Observed example of a god like being creating a universe - No
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
@IsaiahWood - "Another thing, I'm aware there are Wars throughout the Old Testament, " No actually you are not. That's the problem. Because YOUR unproven god in YOUR bible knowingly created these wars simply because it was jealous that others were worshiping other gods which is NOT a reason to commit horrific genocides upon them and in the process murdered babies, Children and pregnant mothers (abortions).
Posted by WarEagle 2 years ago
WarEagle
"You don't need to imagine someone who doesnt understand common sense because you are one yourself ;) nothing makes nothing, Understand that. Everything created has a creator. "

Wouldn't common sense dictate if "nothing makes nothing" and "Everything created has a creator" that either god is nothing and/or god would also require a creator god who in turn would also have to be created. . .
Posted by zapshe 2 years ago
zapshe
@IsaiahWood

Prime example of religion making someone who'd otherwise be moral say/believe/do immoral things.

Imagine if cloning a human was a thing, From conception to emergence - you had control and made them in a lab. Do you now have the "right" to kill that person? What about human rights?

Religion is great, Huh?
Posted by IsaiahWood 2 years ago
IsaiahWood
Another thing, I'm aware there are Wars throughout the Old Testament, There is nothing wrong with that. The theocracy of Israel has killed Millions of evil Nations (like philistines) who sacrifice people altars, Promote sexual immorality (like priest prostitutes), Homosexuality, Adultery. All these things God calls an abomination because of sin, So therefore he has the right to kill those who rebel against him. He created them after all.

"By what standards? Why? "
Look up Nero and that will answer that question?
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
Wow is it fun to see all the pathetic loser teeny bopper so-called christians go at it. Their sad pathetic whimpering arguments 100% shows that they do not in fact believe in a god of any type, But only in their waring mouths and never in peace of any kind as that is exactly what their text preaches from a dogma state. It is not possible for these small little archived blots to actually listen to anyone but themselves, Because they are so caught up in their own self righteous greed to take the center stage and remain in the spotlight and thus prove who's armageddon of la dee da, Is correct. With all their blabbing, Screeching, Whining and princess hooving of the typical litterbox that they deliberately make their scuff marks on their painted chestnuts, You'd figure with all of their cubbyhole intoxications that they'd take the time to smell the sewage that they've splintered out unto the world, Where roses are green and houses are pitch black, These teeny boppers would understand the word "duh". Nah. Stop all the convoluted insanity. Start from the heart, The mirror reflection of a hair and go from there.
Posted by zapshe 2 years ago
zapshe
"There is a difference between terrorism and Nations Battling each other for political power"

Fighting based on Christianity is what it is, Not terrorism or politics:
https://en. Wikipedia. Org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence#Holy_War

A nation guided by God, Right?

"Also, Rome was a Evil"

By what standards? Why?
Posted by IsaiahWood 2 years ago
IsaiahWood
There is a difference between terrorism and Nations Battling each other for political power. Also, Rome was a Evil Empire, So the Fall of Rome was a good thing.
Posted by zapshe 2 years ago
zapshe
"Why are there so many terrorist in Allahs name, If its a peaceful religion. "

Conveniently forgets Christian wars, The fall of Rome, The many who died due to old testament rules, Etc. .
Posted by IsaiahWood 2 years ago
IsaiahWood
Look, Why are there so many terrorist in Allahs name, If its a peaceful religion. Islam has killed more of my fellow believers than any nation on the planet right now. They liter cut their guts out and spill them infront of there wives and family. Im not saying that to be disrespectful, But it is simply true. Alakbar bombers are a known thing, Not only in America, But the whole world. Where does christianity do that?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
IsaiahWoodzapsheTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Countering Backwards poor vote. Conduct, s and g, and source vote not explained.
Vote Placed by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
IsaiahWoodzapsheTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con wins every single point here. "No, There's no proof for God." There never has been and never will be unless this god shows itself or talks to everyone. "Moreover, All religions, Including Christianity, Have been proven to be false." This is also true. Pro "I believe in God" A belief is a belief. That doesn't mean nor does it prove it exists. "But if that was proven wrong than It would have to mean God." Absolutely 100% false, There's other things than Pro's belief in his unproven god. "Which means things like abortion" His god committed abortions. "I believe the bible is perfect" Then how come there are over 1,000 contradictions, different translations of it in which there would only be "one" translation, and only "one" book? "Every christian scientist" There's no such thing as a christian scientist. "If Jesus is not enough evidence and his Resurrection" How does one prove a resurrection? Con "from eyewitness accounts: the LEAST credible form of information - eyewitnesses." Con win

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