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The Instigator
Kvng_8
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
omar2345
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Naruto Is Not Gifted Or Privileged. He Has Worked For Everything He's Got.

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/4/2019 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,367 times Debate No: 120174
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (50)
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Kvng_8

Pro

Naruto is not gifted or privileged and he has worked for everything he has now. It is Con's job to oppose this with compelling arguments and sources. Round 1 is for acceptance.
omar2345

Con

Both agreed this will be an acceptance Round. So my arguments will be in the next.

Await your response.
Debate Round No. 1
Kvng_8

Pro

My argument will oppose your argument from the youtube video "Naruto, The Self-Made Hypocrite" by PlagueOfGripes.
My source: Youtube video "Was Naruto REALLY an Underdog? " by Clyde. This video is actually a response to "Naruto, The Self-Made Hypocrite"

Con's premise: "Rock Lee is the true hard worker in the series. Naruto had everything handed to him. "

Information needed for you:
9 tails name is Kurama.
Jinchuriki - humans that have tailed beasts sealed within them.
Jutsu - the mystical arts a ninja will utilize in battle.
Taijutsu - hand to hand combat.
Ninjutsu - elemental jutsu.
Genjutsu - jutsu involving illusion and senses.

The Beginning.
From the very start of Naruto it's made apparent that Naruto has no one. He has no parents, Family, Friends and he can barely even trust himself. As he has a planetary being that's been sealed inside of him that not only torments him but at any moment can take advantage of Naruto's despair and loneliness. For the most part of Naruto, The village sees him as nothing but a trouble making pest. Those who are aware that the 9 tails is actually sealed inside of Naruto treat him like he's an animal. It honestly isn't until he becomes part of Team 7 that he gets consistently treated like an actual human being. Hinata and Hiruzen (The 3rd Hokage) were the only two before who actually seen him as more than a Jinchurki. As Hinata was rarely allowed near Naruto due to how strict her family in the Hyuga were and Hiruzen checked up on him every now and then but was swarmed with the responsibilities of being Hokage. Hiruzen then proceeded to die shortly after Naruto became part of Team 7. Some people make the comparison that Rock lee is the true hard working underdog in Naruto. A boy born with no talent for anything. Lee may as well be a real human transported into the series of Naruto as he can neither use ninjutsu, Genjutsu or even summoning jutsu. With his raw hard work alone, Lee trains himself to the degree where he is not only superior to Sasuke at hand to hand combat, A famed member of the Uchiha someone who naturally was very quick at learning things like taijutsu and scored almost perfect grades on everything.

Naruto and Rock Lee.
Lee trained himself so hard from scratch that he was the first person to not just touch Gaara but send him to the shadow realm and surpass Sasuke in hand to hand combat. Lee is without a doubt a true underdog. In fact I don't think anyone disagrees with that notion. But there is actually another underdog. His name is Naruto. As I said prior to the Rock Lee stuff, Naruto has started from absolute zero. Now just from me saying that, I will predict you will say "Naruto has 9 tails, Naruto wins because of it, He's gifted, If it wasn't for the 9 tails, Naruto would be nothing. " I dislike mentality about comparing Naruto to Rock Lee. Kurama was never friendly with Naruto at all until episode 329 of Naruto Shippuden. It wasn't until that fight until the anime and manga chapter 571 which includes over 10 whole years of real time of story telling by Masashi Kishimoto that Kurama was actually helpful, Had Naruto's interest in mind and worked alongside him. Almost every single time Kurama got involved in one of Naruto's fights was so he could take advantage of Naruto's helplessness, Hatred of a villain or just any ounce of a chance to cause trouble and weaken the seal on Naruto's body. Kurama verbatim says this on more than one occasion and even highlights how each Jinchuriki before Naruto had treated him as a tool. Kurama absolutely hated humans and had no reason to help Naruto genuinely other than for it to lead to Naruto removing the seal which kept Kurama inside of his 8 trigrams prison and then Kurama would take over Naruto's body.

Kurama's thoughts on Naruto.
Also one of the actual reasons Kurama ended up liking Naruto later on in the story was because he did admire Naruto's hard work which he himself actually explains in the story. Kurama says there were countless times where he actually expected Naruto to lose or the situation was so one sided that he should give up, And Naruto never once did. Kurama even foreshadows and starts coming to this conclusion. Before this however, Kurama was still a massive and cynical force that let Naruto go berserk on numerous occasions against numerous enemies such as the fight against Zabuza and Haku, Orochimaru, Neji, Gaara, Sasuke, Orochimaru again and Sasuke again within multiple encounters in both Part 1 and Part 2. The entire Pain fight where he even entices Naruto due to how rock bottom he is after the Hinata event. There are also plenty more occasions in the series with this happening as well.

Naruto gained skilled because of himself, Not because of Kurama.
To say that Naruto had everything handed to him is just plain wrong. One misconception that most people have is that Naruto was actually very talented and dear to work hard throughout the story regardless of the 9 tails being inside of him. We can assume he got this from his father Minato who was insanely talented as a ninja when he was a kid and had an insane knack for creating jutsu. Although Naruto was terrible in school, Kind of like how most are when they don't have anyone at home pushing them to do better and don't care about them getting good grades, Naruto in Part 1 was only 12-13 years old and was dealing with depression as a child alongside this loneliness which would also directly correlate his lack of caring for schooling and other things. Also, The direct reason Hinata even liked Naruto in the first place is because she could see his depression but she also seen that he would never give up regardless of the circumstances. When Naruto tried to learn new techniques and really wanted to do something he learned them very quickly because when he put his mind to something he knew that he could do it because that was his ninja way. The multi-shadow clone jutsu was the best example because this was a forbidden jutsu, Yet Naruto learned it in a single day then mastered it quite quickly and was able to incorporate it into other jutsu and used it against almost every other villain that he fought afterwards throughout the story. As time passes, Naruto masters sage mode whereas Jiraiya didn't and he was around 50 years old yet Naruto was 16 at the time when he mastered it. He also then used it to help master the rasenshuriken which Kakashi says the original rasengan in itself is already hard enough to master and neither Jiraiya nor Minato did anything like that with the jutsu itself. All they did however was implement the actual rasengan with other jutsu like Jiraiya with his massive rasengan's sage mode and Minato who used it to attack people with the flying raijin technique. Thanks to Kakashi training Naruto, Naruto was able to get a small push where he learned what his chakra nature was and from there he was able to create the rasenshuriken and later on master sage mode when he was training with the toad sage. With all that being said, To be fair this isn't even a talent thing but actual hard work.

Difference between Rock Lee and Naruto when it comes to their struggles throughout the series.

Rock Lee.
Negatives: No ninjutsu.
Positives:
-Insanely powerful forbidden taijutsu (8 inner gates) that can take on Sage Madara when it's actually mastered.
-Insane levels of motivation and compassion from the strongest taijutsu user thats ever lived in the series (Might Guy), Which is confirmed by Madara himself.
-Teammates that genuinely push him and are willingly helping and support him, Even Neji who simply said he'd never surpass him

Naruto.
Positives: A lot of physical potential. Strong shinobi like Jiraiya started looking after him 15 years after his depression.
Negatives:
-His source of power wants to possess him 24/7.
-No one in the village likes him.
-Depressed ever since he growing up.
-His teammates looked down on him and are constantly either making him more happy or extremely depressed.
-He has no parents.
-Motivation to grow stronger was very limited because he originally had nobody to push him.
-He was destined to fight the strongest people in the shinobi world AKA Pain, Obito, Madara and even Itachi. All of these people want to kill him because the demon which has been ruining his life since he was a child is thankfully sealed inside Naruto.
-Naruto is also destined to fight his best friend to the death.

Yes, Kurama is apart of him, But nevertheless.
I will say Kurama has helped Naruto a lot with or without good intentions, But to say Naruto -- the same kid who was born without parents, Friends, Loved ones except 2 people until the age of 13, Had Iruka sensei who didn't originally like Naruto, Naruto having to watch all the other kids prosper and be loved by their families while he sat on the sidelines, A boy who was destined to be chased across the earth until the day he died by the Akatsuki, Had no one like Might Guy to see that hard work in him and show him compassion. To say that Naruto didn't work his a$$ off learning techniques, Helping people out, Show compassion to everyone he encountered whether they were a villain or not -- and genuinely not only wanted to save Sasuke from a road filled with despair but also wanted to lead his village into a new era when he could protect everyone by himself. The actual difference between Naruto and Rock Lee is that Rock Lee didn't have the hardships Naruto had growing up. Rock Lee still had parents and could've lived a relatively normal life. He didn't actually need to be a ninja. Even Tsunade actually states this in the story too. Naruto would've had to become one especially with the Akatsuki existing. Even though Naruto wanted to become a ninja, He was destined to fight regardless.

Running out of space. I only have a little bit left to say. I am finishing my R2 in the comments.
omar2345

Con

Naruto is more gifted than hardworking or whatever Pro has decided to state his side is.


Almost all my information is from the Naruto fandom wiki.


Source: Naruto Uzumaki (fandom)


Highly doubt the source would work so just copy his name and find the fandom. Which should be the first link if you typed in his full name in Google.


Jinchuriki Transformations


This is Naruto’s first form. Even with this form it is really clear the advantages being gifted has. As it states in the source with Kurama Naruto has a massive chakra reserve. Chakra is a form of energy which is required for any ninja to do the powers they have. With a massive reserve of it Naruto is capable of doing whatever power he has relying on large amounts of power to make it happen. Without being gifted Naruto would not have a massive chakra pool thus making it difficult to perform techniques. Another thing stated in the source is that with Kurama Naruto is able to perform several demanding techniques without consequences. Let’s make it clear. Naruto is a massive chakra pool while also being able to pull of chakra draining techniques without consequence. Bear in mind to be able to have this much of a gift gives Naruto a big advantage over the rest.


Version 2


Granted Naruto is not exactly in control of himself when he cannot control Kurama but why do you need control in a fight when you can rely on a massive chakra pool and commit to techniques without consequence? All Naruto needs to make this version without consequence is be able to control the form. That is it. When Naruto did gain the version 2 it is has made version 1 pretty much without consequence.


Nine-Tails Chakra mode


Now with all of those gifts Naruto is still not finished using his gift to achieve even more power. It does state he requires caution when transforming into the form since it can go wrong but if it hasn’t occurred in the show I can state it is not a problem instead something the writer conjured up to make it seem like a problem even though that problem has not affected Naruto. If Pro can show me video evidence of the transformation going wrong and costing his life, Then I will concede this point. I highly doubt Pro could because as far as I remember Naruto has not died in the series so “could cost him his life” has never occurred. On top of the many powers given to Naruto by Kurama this did not stop when going into this transformation. He gained a resistance from genjutsu. Genjutsu is a jutsu category which relies on illusions. Eliminating that as a problem only allows Naruto to be impacted by 5 others. That was not enough gifts given to Naruto. He also gained other abilities from 9 tails which is, Which is given to him on birth, To focus the power around his body in order to defend an attack or make an attack more powerful.


Tailed beast mode


If that was not enough Naruto with this form gifted to him by Kurama is now able heal severe burns and have a protective chakra cloak. If we count his other abilities: massive amount of chakra, Capable of using taxing moves with no consequences, Resistance to genjutsu. Naruto is capable of pretty much being a one many army due to his gift Kurama. Without Kurama Naruto would not able to achieve these forms that give him multiple advantages that improves his survivability.


Ninjutsu


Ninjutsu is basically having a blue sphere in your hand which is capable of doing damage and healing also doing other various things. To show how much Naruto relies on his gifts before Jiraiya showed up Naruto knew only the sexy technique. This technique had no advantage in a fight if the person was not shocked when Naruto turned into a girl. Sure it might work once but when people learn about this ability they will not be shocked instead use the opportunity to punish Naruto. Yes granted Naruto had to learn how to summon toads from Jiraiya but this is on the premise of him being his godson. This was not something Naruto worked for instead both their parents named them after Jiraiya’s name which meant he was his godfather. Knowing this without being Jiraiya’s godfather Naruto would still only know the sexy technique. This is more of a gift than hardwork because without the gift of being Jiraiya’s godfather he would not have learnt those techniques. Maybe he would have learnt it later on but going by what Naruto only knew which was sexy technique I very much doubt he was capable of it by himself or a person dedicated to him because of the connection. I consider the connection a gift because no amount of hard work was required for Jiraiya to be his godfather.


Shadow clone technique


The shadow clone technique was not gained by Naruto due to hard work instead Naruto stole it. Even if Naruto did not know the true intentions of Mizuki Naruto still thought he could cheat with it. The scroll was sealed by the first Hokage and Naruto stole it. Naruto wanted to pass without actually passing the graduation exam. If hard work was key to Naruto then he would have found a way working tirelessly to pass the graduation exam instead he was part of a robbery while only being aware of its powers to let him cheat through graduation exam. What I mean by cheating is that since the scroll of seals was sealed away. Naruto had to take it and use its power for himself. If Naruto was hard working he would never take the scroll but if he relies on his gifts but failed he had to rely on cheating. This is not even mentioning how much of a benefit the scroll was. It also vanished when Naruto used so Naruto was exclusive to the powers. This is more an argument for him gifted than hardworking. The shadow clone technique gained from the scroll allowed him to outnumber enemies, Create illusions, Change into weapons etc. This is of course made possible by his massive chakra reserve which he gains from Kurama not by hard work. If that was not enough positives to stealing and being gifted it allowed him to train so much that a years work can be gained in days. May I remind you this is only possible from him stealing and have a massive chakra reserve.


Rasengan


This is a technique created by Naruto’s father Minato Namikaze. Since Minato could not teach him Jirayia did. Being because of his connection to Naruto not because of his hard work. This is a technique which is a blue sphere. It does state in the wiki Naruto uses his chakra poorly but that does not matter because of his massive chakra pool. If Naruto was hardworking he would find a way to effectively use his chakra but instead he relied on stealing the shadow clone technique and his gifted power of Kurama.


Nature transformation


This was gained by him by training with Asuma. This only occurred because Naruto was not capable of mastering wind chakra by himself and the writers just shoved Asuma with Naruto just to make sure he does actually learn to master wind chakra. If Asuma was not enough help Naruto was still required to use the shadow clone technique for him to actually use it. Which shows that he is ineffective if he relies on hard work but is more effective when relying on robbed exclusive powers and a massive chakra reserve which made his less than stellar control of chakra not matter.


Senjutsu


Senjutsu, Which is made possible by his high chakra reserved gifted to him by Kurama, Is a way for a ninja to gather natural energy. If hard work something Naruto was good at Naruto would be capable of sage mode which is gained from senjutsu but he required shadow clones to maintain the technique. Meaning without the massive chakra reserve gained from Kurama and a robbed exclusive of the shadow clone technique Naruto is not able to gain the sage mode. If that was the case Naruto would not have used the massive chakra reserve given to him by Kurama and the shadow clone technique which allows him to do a years of work in days.


Six paths sage mode


Note from the source it states this power was given to him by Hagoromo. Meaning he did not work hard for it instead was given to him. By watching the part, It was given Hagoromo gave Naruto the power due to his “ability to win other’s cooperation”. That is not hard work or being gifted so neither of us has a point. With the transformation gained from Senjutsu it can be accessed instantly and can be maintained for longer. Meaning if Pro had an argument for why Senjutsu is difficult to maintain and agreed it required his shadow clones, A stolen technique, To maintain that becomes null when Naruto unlocks the six paths sage mode. This was not earnt through hard work it was given to him due to Hagorome’s perception of how impressive Naruto is at co-operating. If that was also not good enough it increased physical attributes and techniques. The source states just how powerful this given abilitity is with this “to the point where he could dodge attacks at the speed of light and deflect Truth-Seeking Balls. ”.


I’ll leave it at that. I am supposed to be saying Naruto is gifted. That is it. I am not supposed to be defending Rock Lee if I was you would have made it clear in the title or Round 1 so that I know what I am supposed to be typing for my Round 2. By the way you literally copied from the video. That is not yours instead someone else’s. You either have a double standard or ignorant to what you did. Double standard if you know what you are doing but have a problem with others do it but not you. Ignorant would mean you lack the knowledge to know what you are doing which is lifting the entire video here which I find that hard to believe. So you have a double standard.


I’ll rebut in the next Round.


Await a response

Debate Round No. 2
Kvng_8

Pro

Naruto is more hardworking than gifted.

Jinchuriki Transformations.

Naruto didn't ask for this power, Nor is he arrogant with it or use it for bad or destructive reasons. My previous argument debunks this.

Version 2.

"Why do you need control in a fight when you can rely on a massive chakra pool and commit to techniques without consequence? " There are consequences, There are massive injuries and wounds on his body which puts his life at risk. Source: Naruto vs Orochimaru (Naruto Shippuden) Naruto reaches 9 tails state uncontrollably. When the fight is over and once the 9 tails receds, His body is severely burned and Sakura had to heal him.

"All Naruto needs to make this version without consequence is be able to control the form. " It isn't that easy to control since 1. Massive amount of chakra. 2. Kurama at this point does not like Naruto and is not friendly towards him.

"When Naruto did gain the version 2 it is has made version 1 pretty much without consequence. " What does that mean?

Nine-Tails Chakra mode.

"It does state he requires caution when transforming into the form since it can go wrong but if it hasn’t occurred in the show I can state it is not a problem instead something the writer conjured up to make it seem like a problem even though that problem has not affected Naruto. " It has occurred in the show and it is a big problem, As I have debunked this in the Version 2 point.

"If Pro can show me video evidence of the transformation going wrong and costing his life, Then I will concede this point. " Already provided source. Naruto vs Orochimaru (Naruto Shippuden)

"I highly doubt Pro could because as far as I remember Naruto has not died in the series so “could cost him his life” has never occurred. " Of course he hasn't died, He's the main character. Naruto has almost died though. Source: 4th Great Ninja War arc. Nine tails gets extracted from Naruto, Naruto almost loses his life. When a Jinchuriki gets their tailed beast removed from them, They die. Naruto is saved and gets 9 tails back. "could cost him his life" literally means "has not died" because there's a "could" involved meaning he almost had the potential to die.

Tailed beast mode.

This point neither proves or disproves anything. At this moment, Naruto has worked for everything he's got up until this point. He didn't magically turn into tailed beast mode. Killer Bee was training Naruto, And Naruto then met Kushina (his mother) during the process all the while playing tug of war with Kurama and eventually having control. Source: Naruto Shippuden episode 246.

Ninjutsu.

"To show how much Naruto relies on his gifts before Jiraiya showed up Naruto knew only the sexy technique. " Makes no sense. How does Naruto rely on his gifts before Jiraiya shows up? He didn't just know sexy technique. He knew shadow clone jutsu.

"This technique had no advantage in a fight if the person was not shocked when Naruto turned into a girl. " Yes it does. Source: Character named Ebisu. Episode 2 of Naruto.

"Yes granted Naruto had to learn how to summon toads from Jiraiya but this is on the premise of him being his godson. " What other premise must it be? Naruto did work for it.

"This is more of a gift than hardwork because without the gift of being Jiraiya’s godfather he would not have learnt those techniques. " Can't be helped. You can't control who you are related to.

"I very much doubt he was capable of it by himself. " Why do you doubt it if you say he's gifted? If he's so gifted, Wouldn't be be able to do it by himself?

"I consider the connection a gift because no amount of hard work was required for Jiraiya to be his godfather. " You consider the connection a gift? Makes no sense. That can't be helped. It's impossible for hardwork to be involved. Beyonce and Jay Z -- one of the most successful and richest couples have a daughter, Blue Ivy. Does that make Blue Ivy gifted just because of her parents? She didn't ask to be here. She didn't work hard to be related to her parents. On a realistic aspect of course you can say she's gifted by the fact because her parents are filthy rich and that she's set up to be an entrepreneur, But it makes no sense to say something requires hard work from being related to a family member when that is beyond someone's control, Be it godfather, Godmother, Aunt, Uncle, Etc.

Shadow clone technique.

"Even if Naruto did not know the true intentions of Mizuki Naruto still thought he could cheat with it. " Naruto was manipulated by Mizuki. He stole it because of Mizuki.

"If Naruto was hard working he would never take the scroll but if he relies on his gifts but failed he had to rely on cheating. " So are you saying here that he had to rely on his gifts? It's like damned if you do damned if you don't. If Naruto doesn't use 9 tails it's bad, If Naruto uses 9 tails it's bad. That's what I got from that. If I'm wrong, Let me know.

"The shadow clone technique gained from the scroll allowed him to outnumber enemies, Create illusions, Change into weapons etc. " False. The scroll only allowed him to do multi-shadow clone jutsu, Not those other things. 'Illusions' Naruto can't do genjutsu. 'Change into weapons' he accomplished that on his own.

Rasengan.

"Being because of his connection to Naruto not because of his hard work. " It's because both the connection and his hard work.

"It does state in the wiki Naruto uses his chakra poorly but that does not matter because of his massive chakra pool. " It does matter since rasengan is very difficult to control as it is spinning chakra simultaneously.

"If Naruto was hardworking he would find a way to effectively use his chakra but instead he relied on stealing the shadow clone technique and his gifted power of Kurama. " "he would find a way to effectively use his chakra" explain that.

Nature transformation.

"This only occurred because Naruto was not capable of mastering wind chakra by himself and the writers just shoved Asuma with Naruto just to make sure he does actually learn to master wind chakra. " How is Naruto gifted if he was unable to master wind chakra by himself? If he was gifted he would actually be able to do it on his own. Keep in mind Naruto worked very hard when Kakashi was training him plus he broke a waterfall in half that Yamato created. That's from Naruto's hard work.

Six paths sage mode.

"That is not hard work or being gifted so neither of us has a point. " I do have a point.

"I am not supposed to be defending Rock Lee if I was you would have made it clear in the title or Round 1 so that I know what I am supposed to be typing for my Round 2. " Okay I understand now. I only added Rock Lee in the argument because in our private messages, You made a comparison between the two and you brought Lee up first. So it wasn't a need to add it in the title or Round 1.

Your words:
"Rock Lee did not steal powers there was no point of him training. "
"It is useless for Rock Lee to train. He requires to steal powers to be one of the most powerful people alive. "

You could have told me to not include Rock Lee in my argument. Nonetheless, Rock Lee will be dismissed. The focus will only be on Naruto.

"By the way you literally copied from the video. That is not yours instead someone else’s. You either have a double standard or ignorant to what you did. " This is perfect. I wanted you to do this and I knew you would. Now I can call you out for your hypocrisy. Don't you remember that you did the EXACT same thing? You made your argument based off of a whole video and not your words in our previous debates before. The first time you did it was in the "Should Anime Be Watched In Sub Instead Of Dub? " debate in R3. You said "Begining my argument on Naruto. (This is basically from the video so do not complain because you did not watch it and it is okay to information from a video becuase didn't you watch Naruto or read the Manga of it? ) This is going to be simple straight to the point so that I can get your opinion on it without filling to much of my own. " The second time you did it was in the "Naruto is a good show" debate in R1. So now I'm turning over the tables and doing the same thing to you. So how does it feel? You don't like it? Well, You did do the same thing to me did you not? Now you know how it feels. How are going to originally use a youtube video against me taking someone else's words and yet when I do it back to you, You don't like it and you have something to say about it? I merely responded to your video with another video that opposes it. In the beginning of my Round 2 I literally explained that I will be using a video to counteract your video that you typed as well, Not only that, But my message that I sent to you the day before this debate, I said verbatim "Ok and btw my premise will be a youtube video just letting you know. I will see your argument for tomorrow. " so why are you acting so surprised? All I'm doing is 1. Rebutting your argument and your stance with a video in which I sourced and gave credit to. I didn't plagiarize. 2. Using a video since you used a video on me before. I'm getting on your level. Two can play at this game.

Also, You have "double standard" confused with hypocrite.

Thanks for acknowledging the fact that I'm not ignorant, Because I'm far from it.
omar2345

Con

I would like to point out Pro's argument is lifted from the youtube video. This means Pro cannot think for himself even though he thinks of himself as a true Naruto fan. Even though I lack knowledge I did not copy from my source instead used it as a reference point for my views. If I the ignorant Naruto fan can make arguments without copying Pro can as well. Pro can say well you do it in an earlier debate but that does not mean you can do it in this one. Have I not learnt my lesson with my arguments? Sure you could not have known my argument before I typed it but you lose conduct for copying.

Thoht said something and got me thinking. I think I am using gifted as privilege.

Privilege: a special right, Advantage, Or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group. (Google: Privilege define)
Gifted: having exceptional talent or natural ability. (Google: Gifted define)
Natural ability: Ability that is inherited (Definition. Net: natural ability)
Since I am not arguing for Naruto's talent and natural ability would mean it is inherited. I am using the word gifted as the word privilege. If Pro is not okay with that then maybe Pro can offer me some way that inherited can be gained after birth like money. Instead of money it would be Kurama. Would like a response either in the comment section or in the debate.

The Beginning
From the very start of Naruto it's made apparent that Naruto has no one. He has no parents, Family, Friends and he can barely even trust himself.
Nothing to do with Naruto being gifted or hardworking instead filler and characters wasted for a point Pro could have made for his side.

As he has a planetary being that's been sealed inside of him that not only torments him but at any moment can take advantage of Naruto' s despair and loneliness.
Even if this is the case Naruto is still gifted with a power that gives Naruto a massive chakra reserve and can use more powerful techniques like the shadow clone technique without consequence.

A famed member of the Uchiha someone who naturally was very quick at learning things like taijutsu and scored almost perfect grades on everything.
After the quote I made previously to this one all the way to this quote was useless in Pro trying to telling me Naruto is hardworking. Meaning an entire paragraph was spent by Pro to say nothing about Naruto being hardworking.

Naruto and Rock Lee
Pro and I had some confusion but we have settled it out. This is not me arguing for him doing wrong here instead it will be dismissed by me because we have agreed on what the debate is about. There are some points made about Naruto so I will argue about them but not about Rock Lee.

Naruto has started from absolute zero
Naruto having Kurama is not absolute zero. If the youtuber agrees that Rock Lee is the true underdog. By that logic someone who is born with gifts like Naruto is not an underdog. If that was the case Sasuke, Neji and Gaara are also underdogs. If Naruto was at absolute zero then why was Kurama so helpful in giving Naruto so much power (Jinchuriki transformation 1 and 2, 9-tails chakra mode, Tailed beast mode). I have already stated the benefits of these powers in my Round 2.

"Naruto has 9 tails, Naruto wins because of it, He's gifted, If it wasn't for the 9 tails, Naruto would be nothing. "
Strawman until he finds one person stating this exact statement or something similar. Instead of having a thoughtful conversation the youtuber would much rather win against the worst of the people against Naruto.

Kurama was never friendly with Naruto at all until episode 329 of Naruto Shippuden.
Still is a gift. Without Kurama Naruto would not be able to be so effective with the shadow clone technique while also having multiple transformations.

Had Naruto's interest in mind and worked alongside him.
If 9-tails did not care about the life of Naruto why did 9-tails help Naruto win the Neji fight?
Source (Youtube): Naruto vs. Neji (Chunin Exams) Youtuber: Lora Namikaze Time: 10:54 onwards.
Naruto also stated earlier "sh*t fox. . . Give me your power! " which does suggest Naruto knows about the power of 9-tails and practically pleaded with his gift for power. This is a point to me because if Naruto could not turn to the gift at that time to give him power Naruto would have lost the fight since up until then Naruto was losing to Neji without the 9-tails power included. This was also when Naruto used the Jinch$3;riki Transformation version 1. If Pro does state Naruto used Kagebunshin to win the fight. I would say what made it possible since at the end of the fight Naruto stated this: "Bushin-no-jutsu was my worst skill" meaning at the least he did not know how to properly manage his chakra to use it effectively for Kagebunshin which meant using the massive chakra pool from Kurama to nullify how bad he is at using Bushin-no-jutsu.

Kurama's thoughts on Naruto
This is also not important in telling me that Naruto is not gifted or hardworking but I will try to find some points which argue your side that Naruto is hardworking.

Neji
Watching the video. Kurama did him a favour and won him the match. Don't see the problem here if Kurama is helping Naruto win when from past events in the match pretty much pointing towards Naruto losing.

Naruto gained skilled because of himself, Not because of Kurama
To say that Naruto had everything handed to him is just plain wrong.
You have yet to give an argument why Naruto is hardworking and my position is Naruto is gifted. Not only gifted because that would be impossible. You have made it impossible somewhat by the lack of arguments for why Naruto is hardworking.

seen that he would never give up regardless of the circumstances
If Naruto never gave up why did he ask Kurama for help in the Neji fight? This can be considering never giving up but if you rely on Kurama then it might as well be Naruto abusing his gifts and being deluded to think never giving up is the reason he is so successful in fights or the most important reason.

multi-shadow clone jutsu was the best example because this was a forbidden jutsu, Yet Naruto learned it in a single day then mastered it quite quickly
Another argument made. Forbidden does not mean the technique is difficult to learn. No where in the Anime does it state it was difficult to learn the shadow clone technique. If you think Naruto did what skill did Naruto used to learn the technique? Critical thinking, Reasoning or something else? If Pro cannot provide evidence of using some sort of hard work gained ability to learn the forbidden technique really quickly then I can counter by saying it had instructions laid out in a simple way which anyone who was able to read can be able to learn.

able to incorporate it into other jutsu and used it against almost every other villain that he fought afterwards throughout the story.
Due to the gift of Kurama. Without it he would not have a massive chakra reserve and the abilities and transformations would be taxing if he didn't have Kurama.

Naruto masters sage mode whereas Jiraiya didn't and he was around 50 years old yet Naruto was 16 at the time when he mastered it.
Another argument really wished you actually lifting arguments that helped your case not lifting everything or as much you can fit in 10k characters. Jiraiya does not have 9 tails. This is a point in my favour because no matter how powerful Jiraiya is and the time he has been alive it is still not enough to achieve the level Naruto has gained with 9 tails.

He also then used it to help master the rasenshuriken which Kakashi says the original rasengan in itself is already hard enough to master and neither Jiraiya nor Minato did anything like that with the jutsu itself.
Would like evidence. Maybe a video but preferable a wiki link pointing to a credible source describing what occurred when Naruto did gain rasenshuriken.

To be fair this isn't even a talent thing but actual hard work.
I have rebutted all the claims made even the last one which I would like you to clarify. The last one is when he unlocked the sage mode. Which is only made possible with Kurama if it was possible in any other way why didn't Jiraiya unlock it?

Difference between Rock Lee and Naruto when it comes to their struggles throughout the series
Everything said here does not provide anything to why Naruto is hardworking rather than gifted.

Yes, Kurama is apart of him, But nevertheless
He was destined to fight regardless.
Everything said here and above was not anything specific in stating why Naruto is more hardworking than gifted. What I would like to Pro to do is extend points and give evidence to his claims instead of just stating it. Granted I did not give evidence for every single claim I made but the wiki I used does point the exact chapter in what topic I was speaking about. Pro has not given a source like that instead gave me someone's opinion that is lacking with evidence.

Nothing in the comment gave an argument for why Naruto is hardworking or worked for everything he has got.

Would have like to rebut your responses but I will wait until the next Round due to space.
Debate Round No. 3
Kvng_8

Pro

"Pro's argument is lifted from the youtube video. " Of course. No need to state it again as I've said it in the beginning of my R2.

"This means Pro cannot think for himself even though he thinks of himself as a true Naruto fan. " I can think of myself. Proof: My R3. Proof: All of my rounds in "Should Anime Be Watched In Sub Instead Of Dub? " debate. Proof: All of my rounds in "Naruto is a good show" debate. In those debates, Your argument is lifted from a youtube video while my arguments were my own. That means I can think of myself and you couldn't. I am a true Naruto fan, This doesn't deserve to be argued or elaborated as it is the simple truth, But you may think whatever you want. If I wasn't a true Naruto fan, I wouldn't have made this debate. If I wasn't a true Naruto fan, The "Naruto is a good show" debate wouldn't exist.

You said "Even though I lack knowledge. "
Look at your R2, You said "Ignorant would mean you lack the knowledge to know what you are doing. " So this must mean in our past debates you were ignorant since you used a video because you lacked the knowledge.
In the case for me, It is different because even though I have the knowledge, I still used the video to not only give you a taste of your own medicine since you did the same thing but to also oppose the video you used for your argument once before. That's all there is to it.

"If I the ignorant Naruto fan can make arguments without copying Pro can as well. "Should've had the same mindset back then. I did not copy. Copy in this context = plagiarism. I didn't make it my own, I gave the source where it came from and acknowledging it. I used it as my argument yes, But I didn't plagiarize.

Plagiarize - copy from (someone) and pass it off as one's own.

"Pro can say well you do it in an earlier debate but that does not mean you can do it in this one" Yes it does. What goes around comes around. You are getting a taste of your own medicine. The hypocrisy is quite evident. I'm not losing conduct for copying. I sourced it and used it as my argument saying where it came from.

"If Pro is not okay with that then maybe Pro can offer me some way that inherited can be gained after birth like money. " It's fine, Do whatever you want for your argument.

"Nothing to do with Naruto being gifted or hardworking instead filler and characters wasted for a point Pro could have made for his side. " It does have something to do with it. If he was gifted/privileged he would have family, Friends and have a perfect life.

"After the quote I made previously to this one all the way to this quote was useless in Pro trying to telling me Naruto is hardworking. Meaning an entire paragraph was spent by Pro to say nothing about Naruto being hardworking. " The paragraph explains how Naruto is not gifted/privileged and it leads up to him being hardworking. Looking at all aspects and angles.

"If the youtuber agrees that Rock Lee is the true underdog. By that logic someone who is born with gifts like Naruto is not an underdog. If that was the case Sasuke, Neji and Gaara are also underdogs. " Naruto and Lee are underdogs. Sasuke, Neji and Gaara are not. Lee has the 8th gates (a taijutsu technique) that is on par with the 9 tails power by the way. The highest Lee has reached was 6th gate which was against Gaara.

"Strawman until he finds one person stating this exact statement or something similar. " Comments everywhere on youtube say that. You think the same way too.

"If Pro does state Naruto used Kagebunshin to win the fight. " Up until that point he can use Kage bunshin. Before that during the academy, He couldn't. He was just telling Neji (after he beat him) that it was his worst skill but he ended up getting better and working hard at it. The lesson Naruto was trying to give Neji is that you can change.

Naruto is hardworking because:
He trains a lot to get better. Source: He is outside alone at night time training. Tsunade retrieval arc | Naruto Part 1.
Trains a long time with Jiraiya
Trained with Kakashi
Many more examples

"If Naruto never gave up why did he ask Kurama for help in the Neji fight? " Desperate times call for desperate measures.

"Due to the gift of Kurama. Without it he would not have a massive chakra reserve and the abilities and transformations would be taxing if he didn't have Kurama. " He would most likely still win without Kurama. Luffy doesn't have the 9 tails inside of him but he beats every enemy, That's how anime goes when it comes to main characters.

"Would like evidence. Maybe a video but preferable a wiki link pointing to a credible source describing what occurred when Naruto did gain rasenshuriken. " Source: youtube | Title: Naruto vs Kakuzu Naruto Finally Perfects Rasenshuriken! | By: Igli Faslija
Source 2: Naruto Shippuden episode 88 | naruto wiki | "Naruto forms his Wind Release: Rasenshuriken and has his shadow clones corner Kakuzu. While Kakuzu deals with the clones, The real Naruto manages to sneak up on Kakuzu and tries to hit him with the Rasenshuriken; however, the technique dissipates mere seconds before impact, Sparing Kakuzu any injuries. Kakuzu then uses his thick black threads to bind Naruto's body in an attempt to steal his heart. Yamato uses his Wood Release to launch an attack at Kakuzu while Kakashi uses his speed and his Chidori to slice the black threads and rescue Naruto. " - the technique disspates mere seconds before impact = he still hasn't even mastered it fully. He has it 90% at this point.

Difference between Rock Lee and Naruto when it comes to their struggles throughout the series.
"Everything said here does not provide anything to why Naruto is hardworking rather than gifted. " Yes it does, It is self explanatory.
omar2345

Con

Jinchuriki Transformations
Naruto didn't ask for this power, Nor is he arrogant with it or use it for bad or destructive reasons. My previous argument debunks this.
Nothing here rebutted my claim of Naruto being gifted. If you rebutted “Naruto didn’t ask for his power, Nor is he arrogant with or use it for bad or destruction reasons” then you must be mistaken. That is nothing I claim. I am claiming Naruto is more gifted than hardworking. So basically this doesn’t even rebut my point.

Version 2

There are consequences, There are massive injuries and wounds on his body which puts his life at risk.
I meant as in using techniques. Without worrying about a massive chakra pool or the technique being taxing Kurama eliminates both things that can be a problem when using a technique. I did see your evidence. You would have had a point if you did not misinterpret what I said or I made it more clear.

It isn't that easy to control since 1. Massive amount of chakra.
Well gaining a massive amount of chakra reserve from Kurama does make the massive amount of chakra needed null if the both of the masses are the same.

2. Kurama at this point does not like Naruto and is not friendly towards him.
As far as I know Kurama helped Naruto. Without him Naruto would have lost the match against Neji.

What does that mean?
Basically in the wiki it states when Naruto gained version 2 of the transformation the consequence of version 1 was eliminated. The wiki was not clear but I would say the amount of chakra gained from version 2 made it a non-problem in using version 1.

Nine-Tails Chakra mode

It has occurred in the show and it is a big problem, As I have debunked this in the Version 2 point.
Debunked one point I made. Highly doubt you would offer the same courtesy when I have countlessly debunked your claims but oh well.

Of course he hasn't died, He's the main character. Naruto has almost died though. Source: 4th Great Ninja War arc. Nine tails gets extracted from Naruto, Naruto almost loses his life. When a Jinchuriki gets their tailed beast removed from them, They die. Naruto is saved and gets 9 tails back. "could cost him his life" literally means "has not died" because there's a "could" involved meaning he almost had the potential to die.
Stating it can cost his life can only be taken seriously if this has ever occurred. This hasn’t and if Pro has evidence of a certain other user using 9-tails chakra mode which has died then he has a point but this is plot convenience. If it does not happen why should I believe it to be case. Costing his life means death not has not died. A cost of life when losing it is death. “Potential” to die can only be true if it has occurred. If it hasn’t then this can be brushed off with other claims that have not had any evidence of actually happening. A main character can still be the main character and die. Example the end of Cowboy Bebop when Spike died. Source Youtube: Cowboy Bebop - Final Scene - Spike Vs Vicious Youtuber: Anas Hart Time frame: 5 minutes and onwards. By the way characters can come back to life with the Madara example so Naruto could have died and someone could have brought him back to life with the reanimation Jutsu. Don’t have the source of his body being reanimated but he was said to be dead but appeared later on in Shippuden. Source Youtube: The Legendary Uchiha Revivals, Madara Edo Tensei vs All Shinobi Madara Youtuber: Sarada Uchiha Time frame: 0:22 onwards.

Tailed beast mode

Killer Bee was training Naruto, And Naruto then met Kushina (his mother) during the process all the while playing tug of war with Kurama and eventually having control. Source: Naruto Shippuden episode 246.
Granted yes it required Naruto to control Kurama but without Kurama Naruto would not be as powerful as he is now. Jirayia would be an example. For being alive for 50 years and he is still not able to unlock sage mode whereas Naruto at the age of 16 is capable of unlocking. This is not because of hard work instead of the gift called Kurama. Without Kurama Naruto would not be able to attain so many transformations. Kurama has a bigger part to play than hard work. If hard work was more helpful Rock Lee would not be so much weaker than Naruto but since hard work is not more important than having gifts Naruto is much stronger than Rock Lee. Looking at the list at myanimelist. Com for the top 25 strongest Naruto characters. The first 9 are all gifted and Guy Might is what I would consider more hardworking than gifted. You might think well that is really high for a person to be more hardworking than reliant on gifts but I checked the other 15 and all of them are gifted. Meaning out of the 25 strongest only one person who primarily used hard work to be powerful is in the top 25. If the show was about hard work more of Guy Might’s would be in the show yet we have countless examples of gifted individuals. Naruto and Sasuke are two gifted individuals which is only 2 out of 24 to pick from.

Source: Top 25 Strongest Naruto Characters (MyAnimeList)

Ninjutsu

Makes no sense. How does Naruto rely on his gifts before Jiraiya shows up? He didn't just know sexy technique. He knew shadow clone jutsu.

Missed out the shadow clone technique but Naruto did steal it. Meaning If you were given a argument for Naruto being hardworking before Jirayia came along Naruto only learnt through hard work the sexy technique. Stealing does not require hard work or gifts. What did help the shadow clone technique was the massive chakra reserve and the ability to perform techniques without it taxing Naruto making Naruto’s poor chakra control at that point null. If you think the bad chakra usage outweighs Kurama’s massive chakra why was able to create so many clones of himself? Look at how many clones Naruto was able to create with ineffective chakra usage.

Source Youtube: Naruto becomes a genin! First time using multi shadow clone/ perfects it! Time frame: 3:27 onwards. Youtuber: J-Raz Anime

Yes it does. Source: Character named Ebisu. Episode 2 of Naruto.
I stated in my previous Round this which Pro so kindly leaves out: Sure it might work once but when people learn about this ability they will not be shocked instead use the opportunity to punish Naruto. This covers his rebuttal without even me needing to rebut.

What other premise must it be? Naruto did work for it.
Naruto working is not more important than him being gifted. If that was the case then Naruto would win in a fight against Rock Lee in hand to hand combat without any techniques but as shown with the Sasuke fight even though he used his powers Rock Lee still won. Granted he lost to Gaara but that wasn’t because Gaara was really good at hand to hand combat instead of just standing there and allowing the sand to do all the work. Without his gifts with only hard work alone Rock Lee would win. Only used Rock Lee to state a point. This is still about Naruto being gifted.

Source Youtube: Sasuke Vs. Rock Lee! Naruto meets Guy Sensei and Lee for the first time! *Hilarious* [Full Video HD] Time frame: 2:43 Youtuber: Mannylo Anime Squad

Can't be helped. You can't control who you are related to.
No argument given for why Naruto is given so Pro concedes this point give me a point for Naruto being gifted.

Why do you doubt it if you say he's gifted? If he's so gifted, Wouldn't be be able to do it by himself?
I meant gift as privilege. You can have gift but not be able to control it. Yes that makes the gift useless but that is not the case with Naruto. Naruto still had massive chakra reserve and capable of using powerful techniques without it taxing him.

You consider the connection a gift? Makes no sense. That can't be helped. It's impossible for hardwork to be involved.
Yes it is a stretch to say connection is a gift but I have made that argument because it wasn’t hard work that made Jiraiya help him. Even if it can’t be helped it is still a gift.

Does that make Blue Ivy gifted just because of her parents?
Yes she is gifted with wealth which leads to much more opportunities in life but can remove some but the gains gained outweighs what is lost. More like an inheritance but can still be considered a gift.

She didn't ask to be here. She didn't work hard to be related to her parents.
Even if she didn’t ask for it, It is still a gift.

On a realistic aspect of course you can say she's gifted by the fact because her parents are filthy rich and that she's set up to be an entrepreneur
Great job agreeing with me.

But it makes no sense to say something requires hard work from being related to a family member when that is beyond someone's control
I am meant to give an argument that Naruto is more gifted than hardworking. My argument still stands.

Shadow clone technique

Naruto was manipulated by Mizuki. He stole it because of Mizuki.
Still is stealing even if you didn’t know about it. Also look at how much Naruto has gained from stealing. The shadow clone technique allows Naruto to do a year’s work in a matter of days which is possible due to stealing and the gift called Kurama.

So are you saying here that he had to rely on his gifts? It's like damned if you do damned if you don't. If Naruto doesn't use 9 tails it's bad, If Naruto uses 9 tails it's bad. That's what I got from that. If I'm wrong, Let me know.
If Naruto was hardworking he would not be in the position of stealing a scroll instead he would have passed his graduation exam. Since Naruto is more gifted than hardworking Naruto relies on gifts and stealing which is not a point for me but how effective he was when using the technique is a point to me because of the massive chakra reserve, Powers not taxing him which is gained from the gift of Kurama.

False. The scroll only allowed him to do multi-shadow clone jutsu, Not those other things. 'Illusions' Naruto can't do genjutsu. 'Change into weapons' he accomplished that on his own.
It allowed him to multiple himself. Should have made it more clear that some abilities are gained later on in his life.

Not enough space so rest of it in the comment section.

Debate Round No. 4
Kvng_8

Pro

Jinchuriki Transformations.
Reason I said that is because I feel like you're using gifted in a bad way as if either 1. Naruto is a villain and is using his power for malicious reasons or 2. Naruto being cocky or arrogant with his power which is not the case.

Version 2.
It was your fault that I mistook what you said.
First you say "I meant as in using techniques. "
Then you say "You would have had a point if you did not misinterpret what I said or I made it more clear. "
Not sure if you're acknowledging what you're doing or putting it on me, But it seems a bit of both.
You should have been clear or meant what you said or whatever the case. My point still stands.

"2. Kurama at this point does not like Naruto and is not friendly towards him. " Yes Kurama gave Naruto an advantage during the fight but the concluding factor of the fight wasn't because of Kurama, It was Naruto. When Naruto came from out of the ground and giving Neji the finishing blow, That was Naruto's doing.

Nine-Tails Chakra mode.
"2. Kurama at this point does not like Naruto and is not friendly towards him. " If that's what you want to think.

"This hasn’t and if Pro has evidence of a certain other user using 9-tails chakra mode. " It has happened. Minato has the other half of Kurama inside him, That's how Naruto was saved. (Reanimated Minato) Reanimation jutsu allowed the dead to come back to life. The person responsible for this is Kabuto during the war arc. I'm aware characters can come back to life, As I've stated what the Reanimation jutsu is. My point is that it's not a common thing that MC's die, It is rare. I acknowledge your source about Spike from Cowboy Bepop.

Tailed beast mode.
Not going to argue the case for Rock Lee, I agree what you are saying about him. If you noticed on that list that most the characters are gifted then okay. It is up to an individual to decide for themselves what Naruto is about. Some people perceive it as hard work, And others may not. It's up to the person because everyone has their own opinions. People believe Naruto isn't gifted and worked hard, Others believe he is gifted.

Ninjutsu.
There's other shinobi besides Naruto that are capable of doing shadow clone jutsu. A character that doesn't have the 9 tails can do shadow clone jutsu. Every time Naruto performs shadow clone jutsu, It does not rely on Kurama.

"Sure it might work once but when people learn about this ability they will not be shocked instead use the opportunity to punish Naruto. " Some people punish him, Like his teachers if they are strict. Other people don't, For example Jiraiya, Since he's a pervert.

"If that was the case then Naruto would win in a fight against Rock Lee in hand to hand combat without any techniques. " Naruto and Rock Lee never fought so there's no way to even know or prove that. So your claim is false.

"Can't be helped. You can't control who you are related to. " It is an argument. I'm saying it makes no sense for you to say someone is gifted based off of them being related to another person when it's beyond their control.

If a person that is born from both parents and two of the parents are poor and in a bad situation, And the person born happens to become very successful, Does that make them gifted?

"On a realistic aspect of course you can say she's gifted by the fact because her parents are filthy rich and that she's set up to be an entrepreneur. " What I'm saying is different than you, Even though you acknowledge and agree to that point. I'm saying in a literal sense, She is gifted. What you're saying is she's gifted because of the connection when it makes no sense to say that, When she could have been connected to two different parents that are completely different than Beyonce and Jay Z.

"I am meant to give an argument that Naruto is more gifted than hardworking. My argument still stands. " Analogy still stands.

Shadow clone technique.
"Still is stealing even if you didn’t know about it. " False.
Steal [Merriam Webster] -to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully.
Naruto stole it unbeknownst to him, He didn't do it intentionally.

"Instead he would have passed his graduation exam. " He did pass. Iruka gave him his headband in episode 1.

Closing arguments:

I see that you said you are using gifted as privileged, Which was a bit confusing but I understand you now so it's okay.

Sasuke is both gifted and privileged. Sasuke is a genius, He's gifted, As he comes from a gifted clan, The Uchiha clan. (one of the most gifted in the Shinobi world). Sasuke has natural ability.

Naruto is gifted in a sense because of Kurama, But not privileged. Naruto wasn't born with natural talent. He is not a genius. He doesn't excel in his first years; while Sasuke did everything easily and without making mistakes, Becoming the most popular kid in the Academy, Graduating and having the best scores in school. Naruto, In plain terms, Sucked. He didn't know what to do with his "gift" in the first place, It's too much power to control plus it caused all of his depression and sadness and many other hardships, That's the point I'm getting at with him not being privileged. Naruto also has his own personal determination as Thoht says. Every single thing Naruto does is not because Kurama. There's plenty of things Naruto has done that was accomplished on his own, Not because of Kurama, So to say he's just privileged all the way is wrong. If Naruto was 100% gifted and/or privileged he wouldn't have a sad and rough childhood, He would've passed the exam at school for the first time, But he failed a few times. Source: youtube video | Title: naruto fails his final school exam | By: Anime Vex. If he was privileged, He wouldn't suck at everything, And many more things.

I used a video as my argument for my R2 because:
1. You used one on me before, So I'm doing it back to you to teach you a lesson and show you how it feels. You even spoke the words I spoke to you back then "By the way you literally copied from the video. That is not yours instead someone else’s. " You can do it and it's fine but if I do it, It's a problem for you. Hypocritical.
2. My reasoning for using the video isn't because I lacked knowledge, I'm knowledgeable on Naruto. I used it because it opposes your argument and you did the same thing to me. I could've easily not used the video and instead use my own words.
3. I used it as my source, And I acknowledged where it came from, I didn't plagiarize so I'm not sure why it comes as a surprise to you or anyone else (Yurtle in the comments).

I know you have your opinion and your mind might not be changed. Hopefully you are humble enough to understand and see my side even though you may disagree. We can agree to disagree.

Thanks for the debate!
omar2345

Con

I am not rebutting Pro's Round 4 claims instead I will rebut his Round 5 since Round 4 was really bad.

Jinchuriki Transformations
Reason I said that is because I feel like you're using gifted in a bad way as if either 1. Naruto is a villain and is using his power for malicious reasons or 2. Naruto being cocky or arrogant with his power which is not the case.
Even if I grant you Naruto is a villian or arrogant Naruto would still be gifted. A good person can be gifted. A person's actions has no bearing on how gifted they are. A person can be gifted and not use any of their gifts.


Version 2
It was your fault that I mistook what you said.
Says the person who was confused.
You should have been clear or meant what you said or whatever the case. My point still stands.
No it doesn't. If it did you would have said the same point again but you didn't. You didn't have a point instead misinterpreted what I said. Now you think the misinterpreted rebuttal has some value even though it is a misinterpreation of what I said.

Yes Kurama gave Naruto an advantage during the fight but the concluding factor of the fight wasn't because of Kurama, It was Naruto. When Naruto came from out of the ground and giving Neji the finishing blow, That was Naruto's doing.
Naruto used a technique which is not effective at using. That problem was null when Kurama gave Naruto his power. It wasn't because of Naruto that he won the fight. It was Kurama. I was more in detail with the Neji fight earlier on in the debate if you want more specifics on what actually happened in the fight.

Nine-Tails Chakra mode
If that's what you want to think.
Did this have to be added? That is what I got from the wiki.

My point is that it's not a common thing that MC's die, It is rare. I acknowledge your source about Spike from Cowboy Bepop.
It could have happened as like a sacrifice but guess the writer still wants the Naruto franchise to go on longer. I respect writers who stay commited to the choices they have made in stories which is why I don't like Dragon Ball. The title pretty much is balls that bring people back to life. Death has little to no meaning if you can just bring people back to life.

Tailed beast mode
People believe Naruto isn't gifted and worked hard, Others believe he is gifted.
If you wanted a debate but then decide in Round 5 you don't want to defend your point of view why make the debate? I am still defending my point and what you said here is just more of a concession than trying to show me your side. Yes some people think this and that. But if we are arguing thoughts there is no point. I much rather argue who is right or wrong instead of opinions and thoughts.

Ninjutsu
Naruto that are capable of doing shadow clone jutsu
Okay who? Since I can't ask him that since this is the last Round. I would blame Pro for not telling who else knows shadow clone jutsu.

A character that doesn't have the 9 tails can do shadow clone jutsu
Yes but the advantages of have Kurama outweighs not having him. Either you have to work hard and train or have a Kurama which negates ineffective chakra usage.

Every time Naruto performs shadow clone jutsu, It does not rely on Kurama.
It was Pro's burden to show proof of this being true.

Some people punish him, Like his teachers if they are strict. Other people don't, For example Jiraiya, Since he's a pervert.
I meant about the sex technique. If he used it when the person knew about the technique it would not work instead allow the opponent to capitalise.

Naruto and Rock Lee never fought so there's no way to even know or prove that. So your claim is false.
I gave as close to I had as evidence. Rock Lee beat Sasuke and Neji was beating Naruto until Kurama helped him. If Kurama wasn't there Naruto would have lost. Neji is not as fast as Rock Lee at that point meaning Rock Lee would beat Sasuke, Neji and Naruto in a fight.

It is an argument. I'm saying it makes no sense for you to say someone is gifted based off of them being related to another person when it's beyond their control.
A gift is beyond someone's control. Either you have it or you don't. What you can control is how you use it. Still did not rebut my claim so I will leave it at that.

If a person that is born from both parents and two of the parents are poor and in a bad situation, And the person born happens to become very successful, Does that make them gifted?
Situation and being poor has nothing to do with what I meant with gifted. Gifted as in something inherited by the person. It would be something of value and since Kurama is value Naruto is gifted.

I'm saying in a literal sense, She is gifted. What you're saying is she's gifted because of the connection when it makes no sense to say that, When she could have been connected to two different parents that are completely different than Beyonce and Jay Z.
Stating literal sense without telling me what that sense is. Having a good is something valuable so the child is gifted.

Analogy still stands.
Pro has pretty not given any arguments instead states that he won. I have better arguments above and I don't need to add one here since there isn't anything to rebut.

Shadow clone technique
False.
If a person robs something but doesn't know they did they are still stealing. That does not change even if the person did not know.

Naruto stole it unbeknownst to him, He didn't do it intentionally.
Naruto stole it and used it wrongfully. Naruto must have known he had to pass the graduation exam. If he thought using the scroll would get him in then he must be ignorant or he did knew but wanted to take the chance anyway.

He did pass. Iruka gave him his headband in episode 1.
After he stole the scroll. You have no point here.

I don't want to bore the audience with another long paragraph stating why I am wrong instead I will say my arguments speak for themselves. Pro did copy the Youtube video. I used my own words even then I made better points. Yes I am biased but I still think I made better arguments.

Anyways
Hopefully we both have learnt something new.
Debate Round No. 5
50 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
@omar

Yeah exactly (what you said first). In One piece case, It's such a treat once you reach the good part. Sometimes you have to get through the boring parts to get to the good part.

"Would you say it has become an addiction? You have to watch it? " Yeah, No point in dropping it after reaching over 800 episodes. I'll message you for explanation

@Smug_Tomato

Season 1 of MHA was good but a bit slow for me then it got really good season 2 and season 3
Posted by Smug_Tomato 3 years ago
Smug_Tomato
@Kvng_8

I was saying that I have seen all of My Hero Academia, Which was like 60 episodes in when I first picked it up. It's not nearly as much as Naruto or One Piece, But still, For me at least, It was a lot to get through. I enjoyed though and also can't wait for season 4.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@Kvng_8

Do you think watch so much of something lets say not very consistent allows you to be more happy when it does get good?
Basically the worse the show was before the higher it can be in the present
or
Your expectations are lower.

"I almost dropped it twice"
Would you say it has become an addiction? You have to watch it?
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
With One piece it's good to do 30-40 since it's known to have a very slow and bad start. 30 episodes isn't a lot to me. 50-60 is a lot for me. I knew someone who said they seen 60 episodes of One piece and dropped it. It really just comes down to the individual whether they have a lot of patience or not. Some people dropped One piece once they reached 10 or 15 episodes, Can't blame them. I see where they are coming from because I felt the exact same way. It takes One piece a very long time to get good, That's one of the reasons why I don't recommend it to people. It really starts to shine 100+ and even then on and off there's slow pacing and boring moments. I love One piece but it's like a line graph, It goes up and gets really good, And then it goes down and gets really bad. I almost dropped it twice, I have a lot of patience lmfao, But at the moment being up to date, One piece is amazing.

You seen My Hero Academia? Or are you saying that you dropped it? I can't wait for season 4
Posted by Smug_Tomato 3 years ago
Smug_Tomato
@Kvng_8

I can see where you're coming from, However, 30-40 episodes is still A LOT of episodes to get through before you can figure out whether or not you actually like a show. Even for a long running series, If it takes that long for me to figure out whether or not I really like it, I'd rather pass and spend that time watching something else.

My point was that it just seems ridiculous to watch what is essentially an entire season-- and in many cases 2 seasons worth-- of episodes just to simply decide whether or not to drop it. For someone like me, Especially, This makes it near impossible to even try the show, Since I have what I'd call a 50 episode limit when it comes to anime I decide to start on. Now there are plenty of exceptions to this (for me, My Hero Academia was one of them) but if I'm going to start an extremely long running series, Knowing that it may take up to 40 episodes just to really get into it makes watching it feel like a chore.
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
Imo, It'd be fair to judge a show and drop it after seeing at least a considerable amount
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
@Smug_Tomato
"I think it's totally fair to judge a show despite not having seen all of it, Or even most of it. " - Sure. What I'm saying is don't watch episode 1, Say it's bad and then drop it. Give it a chance.

For One piece being an extremely long series, It would be ideal to see at least 40 episodes, Maybe a bit more, And then decide.

This is different for the case for short anime that only has 24 or 25 episodes. I'm not saying to apply the same formula to this. I assume you're thinking that I'm saying "Watch all of it, In other words, 25 episodes and see how you like it" which isn't true. That wouldn't make sense because it would be the whole show. It would be ideal to see at least 10 episodes (roughly half of the show) and see how you like it and to decide whether to drop it or not.

Usually short anime series (with 12 or 24 episodes) are great series. (This is my experience, I know there may be some short anime that may not be good, Or others don't find good). With them being short, It will be much better animation, Most of the anime starts off really great with no slow start up and everything fits in those amount of episodes perfectly.

Funny example: A series called Fooly Cooly, It's only 6 episodes. The first 3 episodes I didn't like, I could've dropped it but I kept going. The last 3 episodes I loved. This example of course doesn't equate to giving a long series a chance by watching the whole thing, But with short series it's easier to give them a chance rather than long ones.
Posted by omar2345 3 years ago
omar2345
@Smug_Tomato

I agree. Why should watch the entire show if I didn't like what I watched so far? Sure it might get better but considering the amount of episodes I have to watch more of. I am basically hoping for the show to get better.

I think the average length of an Anime would be 30 episodes.
Posted by Smug_Tomato 3 years ago
Smug_Tomato
There was something that caught my eye in the comments. I think it's totally fair to judge a show despite not having seen all of it, Or even most of it.

"Someone must watch it at least 30-40 episodes [of One Piece] to see if it's the show for them. " -Kvng_8
Most anime only last around 12-25 episodes, So what you're is that it takes upwards of 2 seasons' worth of episodes to see if, In this case One Piece, Is right for you. I think that's ridiculous for any show.
Posted by Kvng_8 3 years ago
Kvng_8
Debate over thanks for the debate.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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