The Instigator
Luciano700
Pro (for)
The Contender
Thoht
Con (against)

Racism is a hugely dramatized issue-change my mind

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/1/2019 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 521 times Debate No: 121130
Debate Rounds (4)
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Luciano700

Pro

You read the title, Now time to explain my position being an overhyped and hugely dramatized social issue

1. The reactionary mentality a lot of racial minorities

2. Most people near you who are ethnic minorities have probably never encountered racism in your life, Is really mainstream people and celebreties who usually try to expres that

3. Minority communities do not get along very well(try building unification of some king and see how good that leadership goes)

4. If you dare try assimilating into mainstream American culture, You will be called a race traitor

Now I am not saying there aren't some people of color who legit do face racism and discrimination, BUT, Is hugely more dramatized than what really occurs in real life. Because racism is one of the most profitable issues out there(like most social issues)

Also we tend to only speak on the racism from the whites which sounds very Eurocentric in possible, Never the racism from other racial groups, Therefore how could anyone take racism so serious if the entire blame has it onto the white man 24/7?
Thoht

Con

Happy to think with you today.

As you've begun I shall as well. I'll talk to your points and then present my own.

1. If people say you're not human or are a lesser being or don't deserve to be here or can't marry a white woman because of nothing more than your skin color, I guess you would be perfectly stoic and have no reaction right?

While it may be overblown from time to time, That doesn't mean there is not a point to be understood.

2. I'm a white man and I've encountered hundreds of racist people. Including a few racist towards me. I don't know where you live but unless you're basing your opinion on some actual evidence you're probably wrong. I have sources for this I will present in my own arguments to show otherwise.

3. I have no idea what you're even suggesting here. If you're saying blacks don't get along with other blacks because they kill each other more often than white people kill them or something you're misinterpreting statistics. Black people also associate with each other more than they associate with white people. That they kill each other more often doesn't even have a bearing on this debate. On top of that, You can say exactly the same thing about white people or any subset of humans.

4. People who call other people race traitors are racists. Failing that, If you do nothing but spread propaganda that has been created about your own race you probably are a bad actor. The term race traitor is silly, But you can certainly be racist against people of your own race.

5. I don't know what you mean by more dramatized than what actually occurs. As statistics I'll present later should show you black people, Particularly black men are stigmatized and face disadvantages other races, Particularly those in the majority, Do not face. If you have a statistically significant overarching disadvantage to other races, How is it dramatizing the issue to point it out? It is just pointing it out and trying your best to change things. You can't always change things without punishing people for poor behavior. That isn't how we raise children, And that isn't how we change adults.

6. I'll explain why the focus is mostly on the racism from whites in my own arguments.

My arguments:

1. Black people receive more severe sentences for the same crime as whites. (1)

2. Blacks are charged with crimes more often than their white counterparts. (2)

3. Blacks are treated more severely than whites when being detained by police. (3)

4. Several policies of the police are inherently racist. Police patrol black neighborhoods more often than white neighborhoods. Stop and Frisk, Pulling over black people more often because they "look suspicious. " et cetera. (4)

5. The reason white men are subject to more scrutiny than others is because we are the "majority" in this country. This doesn't mean we outnumber every other race and sex. We hold more positions of power. As such the laws cater to us. The police cater in our favor. Anyone in a position of power has certain amounts of leeway when it comes to the law. White men aren't prone to serious consequences (5, Definition 3)

6. Black-sounding names on applications get denied far more than white-sounding names. (6)

7. Vast majority of "role models" are white.

In light of these points, Your position has to be that black people reacting to having a patently disadvantageous position in society is "hugely dramatizing" the position. You'd have to deny the lived experience and facts accumulated from all these sources, Or you have to say black people are genetically more likely to commit crime, Or black people culturally "ask for it" et cetera. I can't say any of those positions appeal to me if you have another view let me know. I don't call being jailed around 20% longer for the same crime dramatization, Nor are any of these other points dramatizations.

Perhaps to end, I'll say that of course not all black people are going to encounter this severe racism in their lives. The problem is that the statistics say most will have a really bad time if they do, And that they are way more likely to than their white counterparts. I don't think you can substantiate the belief that there are black people out there who have never encountered racism seen or unseen. It's like saying there are females online who have never experienced sexism.

One last important note, Desensitizing people from the racism that is still in existence even if it is not literally them being chained up and segregated, Is a link in the chain that leads people towards genocidal thoughts and ethnostates, Two horrible positions that lack any real substance or justification. (7)

May your thoughts be clear,

-Thoht

Sources in my Profile Comments for ease of linking.
Debate Round No. 1
Luciano700

Pro

1. I never implied that they shouldn't have a right to express their dissatisfaction, I am just saying that having a militant attitude is not the way to do it

Good job at misinterpreting what I said lol

2. Ok? Never hear anybody near me express concerns of racism in an anxious manner though and this is coming from a minority

3. That there is no coalition between minority communities AT ALL, On top of that they literally will hate on anyone not associating to their lifestyle

4. Ok?

5. I would at least like some citations, Because I can also point out white men get treated worse than white women by the prison system, Hmmm? And you can't always control people, If you are facing discrimination there is literally civil rights lawyers

6. What about Slavs? What about the Arabs? No? What about the ongoing slavery in Africa? How do you think Slavs got their name?

And then

7. False, White women are, Please don't SJW-pander, I can read when that happens.

And please don't bring up sexism when THIS debate is about RACE, I personally don't think women, Especially white and even black women are discriminated against at ALL. Gender quotas, Child custody, Assault shelters and so forth, But that's just my opinion I guess. Regardless, That's for another topic

The more you dramatize racism, The more racists will keep going on to keep rustling jimmies, Just accept that unless you're being physically threatened, Discrimination will always be within us.

Overcome what ever hardship or adversity you're facing, But don't use it to go against the entire world. I am learning this the hard way and if I can do it, I am sure you can do it too.

Man I dealt with racial comments before, Sure I had a violent reaction at first, But learned to grew over them. Guess what? At the end of the day, That's what surviving in the real world is all about, You are on your own and especially as a male, You are out there to compete with other males, Especially with males of other marginalized classes such as men with disablity, Men converting to a religious minority such as Judaism or Islam and or other ethnic minority men

8. Why don't the Armenian and Rwandan Genocide get any attention then? Huh?

9. No MLK? No Michael Jordan? No Mike Tyson? No Ben Carson

May as well say "majority of role models are male" while you're at it

I am not saying ethnic minorities should have to live very boring and distressing lives to the point where they should just stay home and avoid going out and employment in the name of fear and their safety, Right? That would be very depressing to actually see happening

At the same time, Try not to react, Racists at least in modern times, Just want to get a reaction out of you when they try to verbalize you

In the past it was more physical and systemic, But now it has changed for the times.
Thoht

Con

I can honestly say I've never had anyone completely ignore the sources I've linked before more completely than you have. Perhaps you didn't even read them.

I'm not going to waste people's time and engage with you hardcore when you can't address the sources I've posted. All you're doing here is ranting your feelings. Once you reply to my sources I'll continue this debate.

I will say a few things briefly.

1. Blacks aren't being militant about racism. You've seen maybe a handful of riots. This is an extreme minority of blacks in the US as you may know.

2. Just because people don't express every feeling they have to you doesn't mean they don't have feelings on matters. Perhaps try to actually ask them? Most people try to not think about negative things all the time.

3. There are groups for many minorities. I have no idea what you mean by 'their lifestyle. '

4. Ok.

5. Citations were all given to you in my arguments. You have not addressed them at all.

6. This is called "whataboutism. " We can say that there is a problem without having to address the entire world's problems. No one is saying there aren't problems overseas. US citizens don't have much responsibility or control over affairs in other countries on entirely different continents. Foreign affairs may try to alleviate those situations. Our focus should be on domestic affairs. On top of that, The racism people have for Arabs in this country has indeed been noted.

7. White women get the most favorable treatment. White men get worse than white women. Black men get far worse than either. Black women are somewhat favored. It is strange that you tell me not to bring up sexism in a race debate yet you try to specify sex as if you have a point. Whites in general are treated far better than blacks in general. I have linked data. There is nothing SJW-esque about it, And even if it was there is nothing inherently bad about it. They are cold hard facts you have chosen to not address and to try to hand-waive in a ridiculous fashion. If you want to leave sex out of it, Whites are treated far better than blacks. If you want to put sex into it, Black men are treated omega worse than white females. This doesn't change my points at all. Please decide on whether or not you want to bring up sexism as well and I will know how to respond. You can't simultaneously ask I not put sex into it and put sex into it yourself and remain logically consistent.

8. I'm sure no US groups have denounced genocides overseas. I'm sure you also have data to suggest they don't care at all. I'm sure you can defend that they have a responsibility to act for foreign countries as much as they have a responsibility to the citizens of the US.

9. I said the vast majority, Not the entirety. That you can think of 4 names pales in comparison to the thousands I can think of off the top of my head. Ben Carson was one black person out of how many republican candidates? And how close did he get to the nomination exactly? This is not a point in your favor. MLK was a great man exactly for speaking out about racism in a post-slavery world. Exactly what you're preaching against. Why do you even try to use his name? Mike Tyson has many issues in his past that he has brought up. He wouldn't wish his life on anyone. Look up Joe Rogan's podcast with him. Do you really want to bring up Michael Jackson as a black role model? Okay.

This will be the last I address you in these debates until you look at my sources and address them. Your position is nearly entirely feelings based with no studies to support your position. If you don't know why this is annoying for your interlocutors, Please look up the efficacy of anecdotal evidence.

May your thoughts be clear,

-Thoht
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