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The Instigator
billsands
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Phil-E-CheeseSteak
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Social Democracy is Socialism because conservatives have made it so

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/20/2019 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 262 times Debate No: 123490
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

billsands

Pro

if you tell a conservative socialism works in Sweden they go crazy and say Sweden is a market system. With high tax and a generous welfare system, But if you want to raise taxes and increase the welfare state they say you are a Socialist, See how that works so if I am a socialist which you say i am, Then Sweden is Socialist because thats all i want to do i don't want cuba i don't want the ussr
Phil-E-CheeseSteak

Con

Just because people have a complete misunderstanding of what it means for an economic system to socialist doesn't mean the term socialist doesn't have an actual meaning. Social Democracy is literally defined as a political, Social and economic philosophy that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a liberal democratic policy and a CAPITALIST-oriented economy. It focuses on the integration of mixed markets and social safety nets as supplements to address certain market failures, Not as ways to fundamentally and completely change our mode of production from a profit based one to use-value based one, Which would be necessary for it to be a socialist system. I know it can be frustrating when republicans play fast and loose with the word socialist as a way to disregard any argument that has the word social in it, But if we expand the meaning of socialism to encompass Social Democracy, You start to make the term so broad that it becomes functionally useless.
Debate Round No. 1
billsands

Pro

Do people in society ever use the dictionary definition or do they go by their own?
Phil-E-CheeseSteak

Con

I'm not talking about using the "dictionary definition" of a word, Linguistic prescriptivism is a ridiculous stance that I would never take on, Of course words change with time and develop with colloquial usage. However, The entire point of language is to communicate, Words and categories such as "socialism" are giving the meanings they have because it serves some utility to us as a society for them to have those meanings, My argument is that by expanding socialism to include social democracy, You've encompassed a form of capitalism within socialism, Broadening the term to such an extent that its usage becomes arbitrary. This only reason conservatives call people who systems that raise taxes "socialist" is because it is a "scary" word so they want to broaden it to define anything they don't like in order to prey on the broader American context of socialism being bad. No one respectable within the fields of Political Science, Or Economics, Or Philosophy, Or Sociology use this word in such a broad manner, So it's not as if we as an entire society have decided to shift its usage, It's just those who wish to use it as a fear mongering tactic.
Debate Round No. 2
billsands

Pro

not all forms of socialism are market, Ethical socialist advocate a mixed economy as do market socialists that embraced Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and market socialist models
Phil-E-CheeseSteak

Con

This argument has nothing to do with whether markets can exist within socialism, It's about whether or not we would define Nordic states as socialist because "conservatives have made it so" and they have higher taxes and strong welfare states when none of these things necessarily imply socialism. If anything your point here strengthens my prior argument, That the main component of a socialist structure is that shift in your mode of production whether it be through state control or coop based markets.
Debate Round No. 3
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