The Instigator
anc2006
Pro (for)
Tied
6 Points
The Contender
Augom
Con (against)
Tied
6 Points

The Genesis Chapter 1 of the Bible is mere nonsense

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/6/2020 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 281 times Debate No: 123980
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (2)

 

anc2006

Pro

How could God do something that completely contradicts how the universe work? I understand that God is all-mighty but ok, Light and darkness are not together, Ever, And earth is not created in 6 days, And Humans are not created one day after the dinosaurs.

God, At that time, Was seen that darkness in the sky---emptiness, Vacuum--- was solid and separable. There are darkness in light( which is not possible, Consider darkness is the absence of light, Which wouldn't be possible with light).

God could not possibly create the sun before the earth, As it is scientifically proven that earth revolves around the sun.

According to the first day, God granted light, And the nearest light we can access, And presumably god could active over----is the sun. Assume if God created the sun in his first day in charge, And earth was after it. Then- TaDaa! The sun was created after the earth. What the hell?

[1:30] Says, That he has given all plants and animals for us to use, So he want us to destroy the environment? Also, If our environment was destroyed, Why doesn't god just, Plant trees automatically?
Augom

Con

There is a lot of talk in christian and Jewish circles about whether Moses was trying to be poetic when he wrote Genesis or not. The answer is: We don't know. But for the purpose of the debate we'll assume that it was meant to be taken literally.

-"God could not possibly create the sun before the earth, As it is scientifically proven that earth revolves around the sun. "
This is a vapid claim, Seeing as my opponent conceded earlier in his argument that the God of the bible is all-powerful. It is entirely probably that God set the Earth into rotation around the sun after he had created it.

-"Humans are not created one day after the dinosaurs. "
Many paleontologists today believe there are connections between the mythological dragons that ancient peoples believed in and the discovery of dinosaur fossils. It is entirely possible that dragons existed and lived alongside humans- I don't see your point here.

Coincidentally, The big-bang theory aligns with Christian theology. The fact that the Earth came into existence through an explosion is not all that far removed from God"s words in Genesis, "Let there be light. "
"The earth was void; formless"- Scientists that accept the Big Bang theory agree that dark matter or black holes proceeded it. This is yet another scientific consistency.

Indeed, My opponent conceded the debate when he admitted that God is all-powerful. Nothing in the genesis story is contradictory to scientific discoveries that have been made.
Debate Round No. 1
anc2006

Pro

1. Sorry, That was a typo. I was meant to write, "God cannot create the sun AFTER the earth", As it is proven it is impossible or else Earth is just drifting in the universe, But God thought the sun was a kind of service to the earth, When it contradicts with the fact that the sun is geologically and astronomically older, And that the sun collected rocks to form planets and asteroids.

2. Is there proof, Or is it just an unproven theory?

3. Well I don't disagree that the big bang was the light, But there is no "day and night" without a chronic consistent light source, Such as the sun. Since the sun is not created until day 4, This is impossible as that it is proven that god's working area is in the solar system, And that the only star formed within the solar system is, You guessed it, The sun. How do you define a day without a sun or any kind of light source light enough to be day?

4. God is all mighty according to the bible, But god cannot alter the truth without actually doing it. How can god "create" water before land, When geological data said that rocks is there before water?

B1. How does god create water and atmosphere before lithosphere?
Augom

Con

1. "God cannot create the sun AFTER the earth", Again, This you yourself refuted this statement when you conceded that God is all powerful. As I explained previously, It is entirely possible that he set all of the planets in our system

2. This question is irrelevant to the discussion. You claimed that the biblical creation story is nonsense, And I'm rebutting against that.

3. "there is no "day and night" without a chronic consistent light source, Such as the sun. "
There are a couple of answers to this:

1. Begun But Not Completed

The sun was begun on the first day but not completed until the fourth. The idea behind this view is that God's creation was a process.

2. The sun was created the first day but did not appear until the fourth.
The Scofield Reference Bible says:

Neither here nor in verses 14-18 is an original creative act implied. A different word is used. The sense is, Made to appear;
made visible. The sun and the moon were created in the beginning. The light of course came from the sun, But the vapour
diffused the light. Later the sun appeared in an unclouded sky (The Scofield Reference Bible, Edited by C. I. Scofield, New
York, Oxford University Press, 1909, P. 3, Note 4).

3. There was another source of light

There are many who believe that God created another light source before He created the sun on the fourth day. John Whitcomb writes:

God created a fixed and localized light source in the heaven in reference to which the rotating earth passed through the same
kind of day/night cycle as it has since the creation of the sun (John Whitcomb, The Early Earth, Revised Edition, Grand Rapids,
Baker Book House, 1986, P. 31).

4. The sun is not needed

the Bible says there will be light without the sun in the future New Jerusalem.

(Revelation 22:5). And there shall be no night there: They shall need no lamp nor light of the sun, For the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign for ever and ever.

(Isaiah 60:19). The sun shall no longer be your light by day, Nor for brightness the moon shall give light to you; but the Lord will be your everlasting light.

"How do you define a day without a sun or any kind of light source light enough to be day? "
He called the light that he had already created "day", And the darkness "night". I don't see the issue here- the sun simply wasn't needed.

"How can god "create" water before land, When geological data said that rocks is there before water"
Ehh, This isn't a bad question. I'd say that the flood, Which covered the Earth for 40 days, Affected geological data exponentially. I'm hesitant to even bring that up though, Since it's more a point of conjecture rather than something I'm able to substantiate. Now, That's not to say that there's no evidence out there for a global flood- there most certainly is. But again, That's something I'd have to look into separately.
Debate Round No. 2
anc2006

Pro

1. Light has barely any mass. Just having a photon will not make the earth rotate around it, As it is defined that the solar system is the working area.

God did not in any way specify creating rocks and minerals, So it is defined that god just played plain magic by creating the crust, Oceans, And the atmosphere, But never the mantle and the core. That is impossible according to gravity, As earth is not 10, 000 m long or so, And there must be something in the middle or something else will fill up, In this case if God's creation was real, Earth's crust will break into shards and collapse into the middle, Forcing the new heavy irons to go down and create a core on a smaller earth.

So the god's creation neglected the mantle and the core, And don't just bullsht the texts up to "the soil also contains the mantle and the core", As if it is actually real and recognized by the bible, It should be written.

The sun is not the first supernova in the entire universe, And the bible makes it look like so. Also, Specify what steps did god take to create the sun.

2. This is how it works, But since god's words are the wisdom, Why didn't him write that the sun was created from the 1st day to the 4th? CAN'T HE MAKE IT CLEARER? Also, Earth was created before the moon, And after the sun. And since god can see through everything, He can't even write his own creation clearly in? God created the sun in the first day, So he can't even remember it in the 3rd day? What kind of nonsense is that?

3. You just argued that the sun was created since the first day, Then you argued there was another star. What is it? Does it have the rotation the same of the sun? Where is the heaven? Gosh gubh, The sun is the heaven you are saying? So god just copy-pasted the solar system? Oh my god. He created the sun just for the earth, And not an electrical bunker that can sustain life itself without a need of star, But it runs on dark matter and dark energy. Time limits the imagination, And if I go as crazy as the bible, I would start in such space base. If I was the god, I wouldn't even need to create the sun.

4. There is light, But there is no defined daylight cycle as most of light in the universe just shines once and never again. The sun is the only possibility.
Augom

Con

1. "if it is actually real and recognized by the bible, It should be written. "
Utterly false. You have not demonstrated why God would be obligated to tell Moses to write about every aspect of the universe. The bible is not a science book, Nor is God required to record everything that he created in Genesis. You know how long that would have taken for Moses to write? Your premise here is illogical and unproven.

"Specify what steps did god take to create the sun. "
Did you spend any time reading what I had written? I gave several, Biblically-based answers to your question about the sun.

2. "Why didn't him write that the sun was created from the 1st day to the 4th? CAN'T HE MAKE IT CLEARER? "
I literally explained to you that the ancient Hebrew word used on the fourth day regarding the sun is not "create", But "reveal; to make known". He was very clear, Honestly. The fact that your entire argument has shifted from "the entire creation story is bunk" to "Well, The sun don't make that much sense" tells me that we are indeed making some progress.

3. No, I'm not saying that the sun is "heaven"? You clearly did not bother to read my explanation of these events carefully.

4. Genesis was written after the creation, Therefore the concepts of day and night existed when it was written. Moses' choice of words could have been a poetic attempt at explaining a complex subject, Or day and night are simply not contingent upon the sun. In fact, Revelation 21:23 confirms this: "And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, For the glory of God gives it light, And its lamp is the Lamb. " God himself could have been the force providing the light to the universe.

You have failed to demonstrate why the Genesis story is absurd. I hope you put your presuppositions aside one day and examine these texts, Without any predetermined goal of "proving it wrong" in mind. Thank you for the discussion.
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Augom 1 year ago
Augom
Trying to continue the debate in the comment section, Eh? I'm done, Bro. You have failed to prove your case.
Posted by anc2006 1 year ago
anc2006
No christian would answer questions like what I asked because they are taking a historical fiction series too far. That is why I am not a christian.
Posted by anc2006 1 year ago
anc2006
Oh and I saw it, Apparently the atmosphere is created before land in the bible. This is lies.
Posted by anc2006 1 year ago
anc2006
So what you have told me is excuses. Excuses about the flaws of the bible. External explanation for something that is supposed to explain on itself. Stop bullshtting around with text, And without your non-proven, Non-bible explanations, It is basically nonsense. You are just trying to bend the truth, From "the sun is created in the 4th day" to "the sun was copied from the heavens at the beginning from the first day". Did it say that on the bible? Possibly not, Or else the text would change and it is not a paragraph of lies.
Posted by anc2006 1 year ago
anc2006
1. If god is smart enough, He would not make some guy write it on book. He would at least give him a Tablet similar to the ipad so they can at least update. So far, The bible is outdated because it is written 2, 000 years ago, And any god that is NOT stupid would at least try to update it.

2. My point that the genesis creation is basically false is that if god is smart enough, He would remember he created the sun from the first day. And oh snap, If the god is all-mighty, He would have the power of creating the entire universe in one snap. Why gotta take time all the way to 7 days?
And no, Some stars are created before earth and the sun, It is false to say it is created in the 4th day, And some stars are bigger suns, Not just white sparkles. So god just created the rest of the universe in the 4th day? That is obscure, Seeing there are stars before earth, And stars exists in different moments.

3. If god have the power to copy-paste stars from the alternate dimension, Why couldn't he develop humanity on other planets, Such as mars?

4. This explanation is even worse. There is either a million-year waiting for each step naturally, Or if god have its true capability, In which he would use, He can make everything come into existence in one unit of plank time. It is obscure to see that it is exactly 6-7 days.

Also, Where did he create rocks? The mantle, The core and the black holes?
Posted by brandytn 1 year ago
brandytn
What is the actual debate in this post?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
anc2006AugomTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Countering backwards poor vote.
Vote Placed by backwardseden 1 year ago
backwardseden
anc2006AugomTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Con "But for the purpose of the debate we'll assume that it was meant to be taken literally." It's not Con's debate to make the rules especially when he cannot prove that HIS version of HIS god exists. "It is entirely possible that dragons existed and lived alongside humans-" An invented excuse and does not know any better. "Coincidentally, The big-bang theory aligns with Christian theology." Nope. "God"s words in Genesis" How does Con know god said ---anything--- in genesis? Pro ""God cannot create the sun AFTER the earth", As it is proven it is impossible or else Earth is just drifting in the universe," That's really all that's needed to be said as Pro brings in science. Con brings in poppycock.

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