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backwardseden
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The Contender
mall
Con (against)
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The god of the bible and the problem of evil and hate especially among children with their suffering

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/17/2020 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 218 times Debate No: 124060
Debate Rounds (4)
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backwardseden

Pro

Before this debate gets started here's a video on the evil of god in which is *highly* recommended that you watch, Take in and comprehend. If you don't, It's YOUR loss and chances are very good that you will not be able to properly argue this debate.
http://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=Z1BzP1wr234&t=5s%20How - How god Favors Evil
-----
https://www. Bbc. Co. Uk/religion/religions/atheism/beliefs/reasons_1. Shtml
The problem of evil
The Argument from Evil
The existence of evil seems inconsistent with the existence of a God who is wholly good, And can do anything.

The argument goes like this:

Most religions say that God is completely good, Knows everything, And is all-powerful. But the world is full of wickedness and bad things keep happening. This can only happen if. . .

* God is unwilling to prevent evil, In which case he is not good or
* God doesn't know about evil, In which case he does not know everything or
* God can't prevent evil, In which case he is not all powerful or
* Some combination of the above
And so there is no being that is completely good, Knows everything, And is all powerful. And so, There is no God.

Theologians and philosophers have provided various answers to this argument. They all agree that it gives useful insights into the nature of God, Evil, And belief.
-----
Now let's give you an example of this unproven character storybook god of print only pure evil by thinking, Rationalizing, Reasoning, Using common sense, And using logic and the suffering of children.
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=2zYG_fJLjBg - god hates children
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=5kQTIX7NRE4 - Atheist debates get em while they"re young
Btw, YOUR god put children in that position of suffering to begin with which is 100% pure evil and hate. YOUR god absolutely loves to knowingly suffer, Otherwise it would not create their situations for them to suffer.

And btw, I know that you know that you cannot contemplate suffering at all. Your precious jesus in which case you cannot prove has ever existed went through 14 hours, Tops, Of suffering. Some children go through decades of suffering. Your precious unproven who may have or may have not existed jesus, Regardless, Was not the messiah at any rate according to the bible, Had it easy.

Now please do tell me what a child can possibly learn from suffering? Much less an adult? If you"ve answered "nothing", You"ve answered correctly.
--------
Here"s another example of god"s pure evil and hate"
Your unproven storybook character god of print only knowingly creates children to be raped, Beaten and tortured at the hands of their abusers. . . Sometimes for decades. An example is daddy is sticking in his you know what inside of his daughter age 5 while punching her in the face twice per week for 15 years. To knowingly create children to suffer is 100% pure evil and hate at its finest. You can not get more evil than that with all the hate if you wanted to. Please DO NOT bring in the "Free Will" argument either because children DO NOT have the Free Will to escape from these monsters who commit these horrific acts. AND YOUR unproven god knowingly creates these children to deliberately suffer as well as these monsters to commit their unspeakable crimes to begin with. AND it gets better because each and every single time this supposed unproven storybook character god of print only MUST give "power" to the psychopath/ evildoer/ devil/ sociopath/ criminal/ lawbreaker or whatever you wish to call him or her, To commit his or her crimes that are sometimes heinous and appalling for first time events and sometimes many times more events after that, No exceptions, None while the victim inevitably always suffers from the events sometimes being sometimes sickening and detestable.
The abrahamic unproven god must also love it, Otherwise it would create these horrific events. Please DO NOT invent the excuse that "its not god's fault". Well yeah, It is. Otherwise, The unproven storybook character god of print only is NOT in control of everything, Nor is it all knowing, Nor is it all powerful, Nor is it omnipotent. Nor does it care enough to not create these horrific acts. And the worst of the absolute worst is your unproven god is giving greater value, A greater meaning to these monsters to commit these horrific acts while these children suffer at the hands of these savages who have no free will to SCREAM. The unproven character storybook god of print only IS hate and evil. Pure and simple. So invent better excuses please. Sure, Call me that I "hate" when it was just proven that YOUR god hates and nothing but. AND GOD MUST HAVE GIVEN THAT HATE TO ME AND ALL OF MANKIND. And yes, Absolutely 100% that includes YOU by gum! Wow. What a loving god huh? Pathetic, But typical smug christian ideal that doesn't work - ever - excuse on your part.
In other words, God truly hates children which is a truly "duh "situation. The bible proves this time and time again with verse after verse. Would you like a list of these verses? Also, Notice how children do not get to say but perhaps 4 sentences in the bible? That"s it. Wow. It's like having your mouth glued shut for your entire childhood. That's the worst form of child abuse there is - to be neglected and ignored. And the bible does it so well. Sure god and jesus have stated that they love children or whatever, But that's not the same thing. Not by a longshot. How would you like it if someone spoke for you for your entire childhood and you could not say a single word on your behalf? Well, You'd naturally hate it. Also, The bible is surely incomplete because there are no voices of children, There are no children talking or singing, Or voices of them playing, When it is most assuredly required. How would you like it if you as an adult, Worked so hard for your children, As well you should, And they should always be the center of your life, Were to find out that they were left out of your life? Well, Once again you'd naturally hate it. And that's exactly what the bible and god have done in leaving children completely out of "their" most supposed sacred book of history that is supposed to engulf everything that was known within their supposed surroundings up until that special moment in time, And yet it completely ignores and neglects children. Well, Good job for the men who wrote the bible. Not---too---bright.

So prove one god damned reason why ---anyone--- should believe in the unproven storybook character god of print only bible. Btw, Canceling out "evil" and stating god is "love" doesn"t work, Not ever as a cheapened coughed up miserable excuse.
mall

Con

To condense this all down to easily follow, Here are a few points to start with.

When discussing anything of the biblical God, Asking questions, Looking for explanations, We presumably have to review the scriptures to see what it addresses.

So that cometh this question. Do you really have an understanding of what the bible says? It's context, It's equivocal explanations, Etc. , It may be hard to follow, Confusing and appear contradicting.
There are vast interpretations that lead to conclusions about what is truly good or evil.
Next, When we're discussing about good and bad or morality, What is the standard we're using to determine good and bad? What is the rule of thumb to evaluate some thing that should or should not happen?

At the end of it all, It is apparent that right and wrong, At least the idea of these anyway can be very subjective, Apparently.
So we're left with conflicting opinions of this matter with morality and the bible.

I'll illustrate this in it's philosophical core.

Religions are personal beliefs that necessitate no debate, No evidence as they're personal affairs between the individuals and all the tenants, Creeds, Elements and entities there in.

So to the question of "what is a good reason to believe in the biblical God or religion? " Outside of the good things mentioned in the bible, According to the bible, Obtaining belief isn't by proving a good reason to have it.

So at the end of it, The squabbling is over religious ideas, Biblical interpretations. Attempting to discredit or insert invalidation on an individual's personal beliefs isn't possible. It's their own perception.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

I learned in college to read what is stated last, First, Which is what I did.
"So at the end of it, The squabbling is over religious ideas, Biblical interpretations. Attempting to discredit or insert invalidation on an individual's personal beliefs isn't possible. "
Oh absolutely 100% it is. Where and or how and or why would you think, Dream, "believe", Rationalize, Reason, Tend not to use common sense, Tend not to use logic, That it isn"t? I"ve done it with hundreds and will continue to do as such especially considering that according to the big black bumbling baby brained bible the lead characters in it, Namely the storybook character unproven god and christ of print only, ARE evil as well as they present hate. After all, It"s god committed acts of horrific genocide multiple times, Takes away free will to those who abide in any kind of decent law and gives it along with the power for those to commit crimes every single time for first time offenses and possibly many times more while the victims inevitably suffer sometimes are true abominations, Murders babies, Children and pregnant mothers (abortions), Issues death warrants on those who are gay, Blaspheme, Don"t worship it, Curse at their parents, Work on the sabbath, Commit adultery etc, Uses slavery as a steel mill of "work ethic". Yeah. There"s plenty more.
Really? You are going to blindly turn your cheek on that. OK, So you blindly would turn your cheapened gravy mind on a Hong Xiuquan and the Taiping Rebellion invasion of the occupation of your home. Right? Good job in proving how much we REALLY need and require the passive, Docile, Nonconglomerate, Nonresisting, Unassertive Donald junior mint fuzzy wuzzy bear fatalities of his false wigs Trump, Easily the worst president of all time "I am the chosen one", In the big white barn forever and ever as a neon huggable smooch on the undies. Wow.

Now let"s start from the top. . .
"We"" Whoa there. Stop. It"s not "we". It"s only you. Just you. To prove it "presumably have to review the scriptures to see what it addresses. " In which case you did not do because you did not bring up ---any--- books, Chapters or verses.

"Do you really have an understanding of what the bible says? It's context, It's equivocal explanations, Etc. " A very nonchalant oxidized question and truly does not matter because the bible itself does not matter. Why? No idiot god if in any possible way were true, This is from ---any--- religion mind you, Would ever use text, Namely the bible as an example, As a form of communication, Advertisement, Correspondence, The absolute worst form of communication, Advertisement, Correspondence possible to a god that is true. There are at least 50 reasons for this. Let"s see if you can think of at least 3. Just 3. I"ll give you a few, Translation errors from language to language that would deliver different messages, Update errors as language changes over time that would deliver different messages, There"s over 1, 000 supermassive hypocritical contradictions and inconsistencies in the bible alone etc etc etc. No idiot moron god would not know these things well beforehand and ---never---, Not for any reason, Not ever, And would never use text. Period. So there"s no truth whatsoever behind the bible, Only belief. And yeah, The bible preaches evil and hate.
Would you like even more proof of this, The worst of the worst which hasn"t even been gotten into which the christian belief pulverizes all religions as far as evil and hate is concerned?
Then again, NOBODY from the human race has EVER proved that ---any--- god from ---any--- religion has ever existed. Yep. That"s a major problem.

Continuing "It may be hard to follow, Confusing and appear contradicting. " Um no. It is. But if this supposed character storybook god of print only were true, None of that would even take place.

"There are vast interpretations that lead to conclusions about what is truly good or evil. " Ab-so-lu-te-ly. Supposed christians (there"s no such thing as a christian biblically speaking) cannot justify under any unseen atom as to what their unproven god has done in their bible.
A perfect example is a mere thought of the biggest genocide of all time which thankfully has never happened, The great flood, The deliberate wiping out of all life except for 2 of each species and 8 humans. There"s 0 love in that.

Morality? A supreme deity murdering babies, Children and pregnant mothers just so it can get its kicks IS immoral. Gotta stop that "we"re". Again, It"s only you. Just you.
It"s also pretty apparent that you did not watch the video in RD1. So that"s your loss. It shows me and anybody who has an education and is intelligent when you have even the presumption and f--ked up gal to mention "morality" and then there"s the outside world from your teeny tiny little painted black box that you truly have no morals at all.

Tracie Harris "If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That"s the difference between me and your god. He watches and shuts the door and you go ahead and you rape that child and when you're done I"m gonna punish you. If I did that people would think I"m a freakin" monster. " Caller "(sounds like) Truthfully (continues) you portray that little girl as someone who is innocent when she"s as evil as"" CLICK Matt "Goodbye you piece of BLEEP! " Yes there are some sicko"s out there. There doesn"t need to be. However, This supposed god that you razor sharp employ like a well huddled boy scout, "where have all the flowers gone long time passing? "

"At the end of it all, It is apparent that right and wrong, "At the end of what all? Right and wrong? If you are going to follow that path, Clearly, If you"ve read the bible, In which case you obviously haven"t, And it"s mere guesswork at best for you unless you don"t have any kind of a pea of a yodeling grunge country opera conscious (don"t worry, There"s many here on DDO and in life that are so completely brainwashed that don"t as they go into absolute denial) and know stone cold 0 about immorality VS morality, Then there IS absolutely no difference between right and wrong. The bible, Christianity in which according to the bible can once again never take place because it"s an impossibility, Is WRONG.
Not only that but it is also a matter of what is just VS what is unjust. The unproven storybook character god and christ of print only of the bible are superior ego god complexes of evil and hate in which the bible is entirely about are immoral, Wrong and unjust that inflict pain and suffering especially unto children.

"At least the idea of these anyway can be very subjective, Apparently. "
According to what? You? Well it"s not too many who have actually read the bible and actually believe in it and have good consciousnesses and believe in good as well as things that are prosperous.
Here"s something that you also don"t get"
Since the inception of the so-called christian god there"s not been 50 years, Just 50 fricken years of peace. Not anywhere. Not at any time. Not within any culture. Think about that. So it"s not subjective in any possible and or meandering way, Apparently.

"Religions are personal beliefs that necessitate no debate, No evidence as they're personal affairs between the individuals and all the tenants, Creeds, Elements and entities there in. "
Hmmmm strange isn"t it that everything you"ve thus far have said is a complete and total supermassive hypocritical contradiction to that.
Now here"s the fallacy to that ignorant statement and let"s look at it in depth because OF COURSE IT DOES. Is this nerf football weekend for the uninsured with explanations being so poor? Tell me do you just splatter out idiocies onto your typing fingies do the frolicking and let all that goo flow BEFORE you actually take into consideration what you really should say? Um nope is your answer? Obviously. Because as an example then the sneezerag unproven christ would not be the most fought after figure in the history of the human race.
Another example. Sure. About 2 months ago there was an episode on PBS"s Nova in regards to violence. It only spoke of religion for about 30 seconds, If that. Narrator Keith David "And if you think early religions were a paradise of peace, Think again. " Harvard University Steven Pinker "The bible, The so-called good book, Is one long capitate of violence beginning where Cain slaying Abel, Noah's flood, You have Samson killing thousands with a jawbone of an a$$. And then the Israelites are commanded by god to commit total genocide. "

"So to the question of "what is a good reason to believe in the biblical God or religion? "
That question only was asked by you. And no, You, Nor anyone on planet earth has ever, Nor can ever think of a good qualifying thinking, Rational, Reasoning, Common sense, Nor logical reason to believe in the biblical god and or any god from any religion. After all what is the definition for religion: 1. A set of beliefs concerning the cause, Nature, And purpose of the universe, Especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, Usually involving devotional and ritual observances, And often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. 2. A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion. 3. The body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions. 4. The life or state of a monk, Nun, Etc. : to enter religion. 5. The practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith. 6. Something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
Notice how many of the definitions use the word "beliefs"? Yeah. There"s nothing tangible. There"s no evidence for any god"s existence.
"Isn"t it wise to believe with evidence rather than to believe without it? Matt Dillahunty
mall

Con

So you have your opinion, Viewpoint, Understanding of the bible. It's your personal take of it. So what is there to debate on regarding your beliefs? Something personal, The way you see it, Interpret it, What else can be done? You can go back, Study, Understand the context of whatever you're reading.

This is what was stated in it's context : "When discussing anything of the biblical God, Asking questions, Looking for explanations, We presumably have to review the scriptures to see what it addresses. "

You're adding "To prove it " to that quote above. So keep it in context just like approaching the bible in context. I'll say "we" because to get answers to questions about what the bible says, Would WEEEE not go to the bible to address these questions? You're asking about proof, You should have the common sense to go to the source of information to get the information that's related to it.
Of course the book has to matter for you to seek this information. Why else seek for it? Why mention any books, Chapters or verses if the book does not matter?
According to this quote: "A very nonchalant oxidized question and truly does not matter because the bible itself does not matter"
So again, When it matters to you, If you have questions, Trouble in understanding, Go back and look over the scriptures.

If anybody has proven any God from any religion ever existed, Would there be a point in religion? Wouldn't proof negate faith at that point?

The rest of your argument is just opinion. As I've stated, A squabbling of religious ideas. . Where nothing has been proven or disproven, It doesn't amount to any thing. At least speaking in a philosophical relationship, It is of no consequence.

Let's analyze this statement: "Isn"t it wise to believe with evidence rather than to believe without it? "

If you have evidence, Why is the "believe" part in there? Do you mean weak evidence or barely any evidence? Maybe you have to check with the person that originally made the statement.

The fact is, You use faith everyday. We have beliefs operating in many areas of our everyday lives.

We typically recognize this through plans and plan making.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

Sorry for the delay. Been sick as stated. Still am. All I"ve been doing is sleeping. Thankfully the cough hasn"t been a dominating force as is normal when I get sick.

OK onto busy-ness"
I"ve skimmed over what you"ve stated and will completely ignore from now on ---everything--- when you use the word "we". Because as stated, It"s only you, Just you. You assume that billions, And no, It"s not billions, It"s everybody on the planet should follow your example, Including myself, When in fact "we" don"t.

So let"s move on"
Your second to last statement, Um no wrong.
"The fact is, You use faith everyday. We have beliefs operating in many areas of our everyday lives. "
The difference is whereas you believe in your unproven storybook character god of print only, I don"t.

"Why would you believe anything on faith? Faith isn"t a pathway to truth. Every religion has some sort of faith. If faith is your pathway you can"t distinguish between christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Any of these others. How is it that you use ---reason--- in every other endeavor in your life and then when it comes to the ultimate truth, The most important truth you're saying that faith is required and how is that supposed to reflect on a god? What kind of a god requires faith instead of evidence? " Matt Dillahunty

"Faith is the reason people give when they don"t have evidence. " Matt Dillahunty

"Faith can be very very dangerous, And deliberately to implant it into the vulnerable mind of an innocent child is a grievous wrong. " Richard Dawkins

"Faith is the great cop-out, The great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is the belief in spite of, Even perhaps because of, The lack of evidence. " Richard Dawkins

"Its called faith because its not knowledge. " Christopher Hitchens

https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=XcB_g_ElIdQ&t=339s - Another Appeal To Faith - The Atheist Experience
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=72l6IeEFhPE&t=2996s - Faith is not an Understandable Way to Truth
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=oSXLMxMYve8 - "We all have faith. . . "
"In order to make a case for something that is the result of intelligent design, You would need to demonstrate a designer that has intent towards a goal and provide evidence for that. Can you do that? " Matt Dillahunty
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=8w5ccgEYJns - Resurrection, Faith, Personal experience as evidence | Chris - ID 7/7 Seth Andrews
"If we genuinely know something, There"s no need to take it on faith. And if you"re going to accept it on faith, Then you"re going to have to play in the arena where every other religion, Every other belief system, Every other truth claim, Playing the faith card gets equal treatment otherwise you"re being a hypocrite about faith. I think faith is a TERRIBLE way to determine what is true or not true. I don"t want to just believe. Let"s go out and know, Or try to know. And if we can"t find the answer instead of making one up or taking it on faith we say that we are simply honest with others and simply say it "I don"t know". I hope to one day know and make that JOURNEY about an evidenced based exploration of facts and a journey towards knowledge with no faith at all in play. " Seth Andrews

"So you have your opinion, Viewpoint, Understanding of the bible. "
Which comes from an understanding of others takes on the bible through their expertise, Deduction, Knowledge, Mastery,
on it in which case you do not have.
"It's your personal take of it. "
Read the above statement.

"The way you see it, Interpret it, What else can be done? You can go back, Study, Understand the context of whatever you're reading. "
Tell you what, That"s a HUGE blow to your arrogance, Smugness and conceitedness. Did it ever dawn on you that maybe, Just maybe you are taking YOUR bible, Entirely out of context? AND that YOU have no idea what it says at all? I have presented you with proof. You have presented me with 0. Only your conceited aloof statements.

"This is what was stated in it's context : "When discussing anything of the biblical God, Asking questions, Looking for explanations, We presumably have to review the scriptures to see what it addresses. "
Um no "we" don't. You were previously proven 100% wrong in the previous RD that only a simpleton moron could not have seen as to why no moronic true god would never use text. I guess you wish to have this further dragged out. OK. Let"s"
Who says that ANY of the bible is true? YOU nor anyone can prove that ANY of it is. After all there"s no possible way that it can be proven as to who ---any--- of the authors were, Yes that includes Moses. Again, There"s a good 1, 000 supermassive hypocritical contradictions and inconsistencies in your bible making it unreadable. There"s copies upon copies upon copies upon translations upon translations upon translations upon dead languages upon dead languages upon dead languages that have died off with absolutely no possible way to trace any of it back to the original because no original exists in the first place. So EVERYBODY, No exceptions, None, Is misinterpreting. Now suppose that there is an original? Who"s going to interpret from this original and get it right so that each translation and update that is required is going to get the same exact message throughout eternity which is a true impossibility simply because of translations terminology differences. "And and and" is going to mean something completely different in another translation to "the the the". Even better? What if these interpreters misinterpret as they all do with no questions asked? Even better? Who gives these interpreters the right to CHANGE anything that these characters say especially with the updates that there are in your bible? A perfect book is a perfect book especially if it comes from a perfect being with what a perfect being says in it. It cannot be altered. Not for any reason whatsoever. But it was, Who knows how many numerous possibly millions of times? Simple. Compare the KJV to the NLT with at least one third of the verses have been altered. Especially with your lead characters of your god and christ. It's at my next funeral. Now with all of these truly hideous fatalities in text alone, There"s absolutely no possible way that a true genuine god would have not known beforehand all of these fatalities + a whole lot more not mentioned and would not ever, Not for any reason, Use text, Namely your bible, As a form of communication, Advertisement, Correspondence, The worst form of communication advertisement, Correspondence possible TO A GOD.
Here"s a few examples"
* In the Bishop"s bible, The one before the KJV, The word "Tyrant" was used I don"t know how many times (its at least 400 from what completed records show) and then in the KJV that was replaced by "King". WHAT? Tyrant and King are two different and totally apples and oranges with each having totally different meanings.
* In Isaiah 45:7 KJV "I form the light, And create darkness: I make peace, And create evil: I the Lord do all these things. " In the NIV version, Its "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, The Lord, Do all these things. " In the NLT its "I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, The Lord, Am the one who does these things. The words "evil" and "disaster" and "bad" are 3 completely different words that have 0% of nothing to do with each other and completely change the meaning of the verses. With each different verse, The messages are completely different. The synonyms of each word don"t even match.
Now which version is correct if any that millions are reading? And doesn"t any thinking moron not know that no god would allow this kind of crap to not allow any kind of passing the grade and thus no true god, Not for any reason among many reasons, Would never even contemplate using text as a form of communication, Advertisement, Correspondence TO ANY GOD? So what's left? Faith? Do you ---really--- want to get into faith? Science doesn't work because no science was mentioned in the bible AT ALL of any kind to explain its god's existence. Anything else?

"Why mention any books, Chapters or verses if the book does not matter? "
Because it"s the only thing that you"ve got for proof other than faith and science in which case faith was just proven as false and science doesn't work either. As just proven, The bible is not proof. It's a triple whammy.
According to this quote: "A very nonchalant oxidized question and truly does not matter because the bible "Go back and look over the scriptures. "
Since so-called worthless meaningless neanderthal "scriptures" that no idiot true god would ever use to prove its existence, Especially if they are at least 2, 000 years old, With no updates, Then that one is on you who cannot prove it to be true. You still don"t get it. Even worse is you don't "want" to get it. It's either called denial or brainwashing or both.

"If anybody has proven any God from any religion ever existed, Would there be a point in religion? Wouldn't proof negate faith at that point? "
No it wouldn"t. Religion is created to explain the unexplained. Then from there as nearly every single one of them, Though not all they follow in suit and christianity especially among its 33, 480 + denominations 1. Power. And then from that power it trickles down to 2. Fear. Then from that fear it trickles down to 3. Control. Very rarely is that mold broken.

"The rest of your argument is just opinion. "
OK then we"re done. I have no time nor effort within my busy work week of sleeping and doing nothing else to listen to a nobody like you who cannot back up ---anything--- with any kind of evidence whatsoever and obviously only listens to his sharpened tongue and under no circumstance listens to anyone else. Even worse, Does not take into account dictionary definitions, PBS, And proofs that cannot be refuted. And because they cannot be refuted you call them "opinions". Wow. Have fun.
mall

Con

" I"ve skimmed over what you"ve stated and will completely ignore from now on ---everything--- when you use the word "we". "

You ignore any part of this debate, That counts against you. Virtually what you're communicating is "I'm not going to address certain parts so therefore I won't or don't have to refute them. Better be careful on that.

"Why would you believe anything on faith? Faith isn"t a pathway to truth. Every religion has some sort of faith. If faith is your pathway you can"t distinguish between christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Any of these others. How is it that you use ---reason--- in every other endeavor in your life and then when it comes to the ultimate truth, The most important truth you're saying that faith is required and how is that supposed to reflect on a god? What kind of a god requires faith instead of evidence? " Matt Dillahunty

"Faith is the reason people give when they don"t have evidence. " Matt Dillahunty

"Faith can be very very dangerous, And deliberately to implant it into the vulnerable mind of an innocent child is a grievous wrong. " Richard Dawkins

Faith is the great cop-out, The great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is the belief in spite of, Even perhaps because of, The lack of evidence. " Richard Dawkins

"Its called faith because its not knowledge. " Christopher Hitchens "

See I can condense all this up because it's basically circular. Ask one question regarding all of this.
Do you and many others alike understand what religion is?

You can gather all the atheists quotes in the world and try to mix intellect with spirituality, It won't work that way. It's understandable that atheists don't understand, Pun intended. It's like seeking law abiding examples from criminal perps in the criminal act. It just doesn't follow.

So you can go on and on about evidence, Fine. But don't look for religion to provide it. Religion and evidence are not one in the same. So don't look to find them married to each other. Don't mix evidence with religion, Don't look to find it there. That is, Proof of any kind. Why have faith when evidence has been found? Unless it hasn't been found.

There are those that accept whatever religion for what it is. You either accept it or continue your evidence investigation in a library or somewhere.

The remainder of your points are just circular as it'll just repeat my responses as stated previously in regards to opinions of scripture, Religious ideas etc.

Is faith a bad method to get to truth?
I don't think you understand what faith is. When I have solid evidence for something, Why would I say "I believe such and such to be true"?

When I have something proven to be factual, I no longer will be able to trust in that something without the knowledge of proof because I have that proof now. Belief is out, Knowledge is in. Unless I'm somehow being delusional.

Remember, Faith is not about claiming some thing to be fact or true.
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

Well crack that whip. Give that mom a snack.
Tisk tisk if you only had some evidence to back up what you say to be able to back up your claims, And even if you did, They'd be mighty high strung and you'd be a reachin for the doody bar. . . But nah. You really hate losing that badly don't yah.

Did you actually make a point?
mall

Con

"Tisk tisk if you only had some evidence to back up what you say to be able to back up your claims, And even if you did, They'd be mighty high strung and you'd be a reachin for the doody bar. . . But nah. You really hate losing that badly don't yah. "

If only I made claims. Where did I make a claim to be true?
Then you resort to flippant, Sarcastic like statements. Well what else do you got? Certainly no rebuttal made to the POINT, POINTS about religion and evidence. Of course not, It's not debatable. No one is running a laboratory experiment of a hypothesis in a real church some where. You can take that as sarcasm for whatever it's worth.
I won't call this a loss or you losing on your side. It's just a learning experience for all of us.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by mall 2 years ago
mall
Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
@mall - I have a lot of things to do. Then it is time for me to go to beddy bye and I sleep for a day. And I've got a glorious fever with a cough. Wonderful! So I'm not sure when I will be able to respond.
Posted by anc2006 2 years ago
anc2006
Well, I agree. Waiting for the theists to knock on this door so I could refute it.
No votes have been placed for this debate.

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