The Instigator
CraneTechnique
Pro (for)
Tied
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The Contender
ConservativeDebating
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

There are infinite genders

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/11/2019 Category: Movies
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 649 times Debate No: 123442
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

CraneTechnique

Pro

If you don't understand that, Then you don't understand the difference between "gender" and "sex".
ConservativeDebating

Con

I disagree with the statement that there are infinite genders.

Before I get deep into my argument, I want to extend that the premise itself is self-defeating. If there are truly an infinite number of genders then who the hell cares and what does it mean to anything. If any individual and develop their own new gender, What does this mean for public policy? Will my new gender get added to a federal list of all 'discovered' genders? I think you might be confusing the idea of a gender with the idea of a personality. I can act however I want, For example acting 'masculine' as a female but I can only identify as one of two genders: male or female.

You propose that there is a different between 'gender' and 'sex', Well then let's set gender aside for a moment. I will ask you this question: Can you agree with me that there are two SEXes, Male and female, And that we are all one of the two sexes, Except for the exceptionally rare medical disorder of being born 'intersex' (1 in 4500 births I believe)?

Now let's re-examine the idea of gender. Considering that there are two sexes, This means there are two genders, One corresponding to each sex. I believe that there is no fundamental significant difference between the two terms, Which is why they have been used interchangeably for nearly all of history up until the last few years.

If an individuals believes there are of the opposite gender, When their sex does not match, This has been a commonly referred to medical diagnosis as 'gender dysphoria'. I both acknowledge and value the existence of the individuals, And I truly want the best for them in any manner. However, This does not mean they are correct, And it certainly does not mean that public policy should be created that infringes on my freedoms.
Debate Round No. 1
CraneTechnique

Pro

I believe that anyone should be allowed to identify as any gender, Whether it is listed or not. We should have a list of known genders but any identity should be considered equally valid and be added to the list once it is discovered by some individual who identifies that way. On a liscense or other suchj thing "gender" and "sex" should be separate catigories and should both be on there, With sex being determined by biology and gender being literally anything they identify as.

I agree with you about sex in humans being binary, Assuming we are talking about humans. In the future though we may have a shared society with different types of aliens, And have a galactic government with multiple advanced races in the galaxy. These races may have different biological sexes, And thus sex should not be considered somethin inherently binary.

likewise, There are still potentially infinite genders even if you assume gender and sex are the same thing. To proclaim that there can only be two sexes is hate speech against aliens who are biologically different than us and have more types of sexes than we currently know of.

NBow when it comes to the idea of "gender dypshoria" that is also hate speech. There was a time when gays were considereed mentally ill too, But to call gayness a mental illness is recognized as hate speech now. When you say "gender dysphoria" you are labeling people as defective in some way for being different and it is ignorant because just because someone has a penis doesn't mean they aren't feminine on a psychological and spiritual level. It is not a matter of being dysphoric, It is a matter of your body and mind not aligning. You could just as easily say it is the body which is abberating from what you are supposed to be based on the mind being more important if you know what I mean.
ConservativeDebating

Con

Pro"s first paragraph isn"t an argument, It"s more or less just a statement of belief that can be summed up in many less words: anyone can identify their gender as anything, And that should be added to a list and government documentation and they should be considered equal.

This is not a response to my argument that this becomes self-defeating. It gender can mean anything then it ultimately means nothing. You might"ve seen the viral meme of the person that sarcastically identifies their gender as an "attack helicopter". If there are infinitely and personally discoverable genders, Then this is a gender in the world of the PRO, And I could go to the government and get "Attack Helicopter" printed on my government-issued identification as my gender. Once we are at that point, What does gender even mean anymore?

I"ll tell you what gender means, It is the non-biological components associated with the biological sex of that individual. That is why they have been used interchangeably throughout all of history, Because they are essentially referring to the same state of being. You can still be an effeminate male, But this does not mean you are "transgender" or "born into the wrong body".

Let"s group and address all of the arguments about aliens. I"ve never heard someone tell me that I"m committing hate speech against aliens so thank you for being the first.

I don"t even think these warrant an in-depth response. We are obviously talking about human gender and sex, I did assume that was a part of the conversation. If I proclaim there"s two biological sexes for humans, I"m not "hating" on aliens, I"m just being ignorant, And so are you. Because we don"t know that aliens even exist.

Comparing this issue to the question of sexuality is inappropriate just based on the differences in both areas, Especially when it comes to science. When it comes to the scientific question of sex, The answer is clear and has been for all human history, This is unlikely to ever change.

Even if my argument is "hate speech" that doesn"t make it incorrect, Tell my why my argument is wrong not why you think its offensive or don"t like it.

When I say someone likely has a problem with gender dysphoria, I am saying that a female truly believes they are male or vice versa (or some other type) when they are factually not. Yes, I agreed twice already that if you want to be an effeminate male then you are obviously welcomed to do that, And I could not give less of a f*ck. Whatever you want to do in order to fix that problem of yours is just that, You"re problem, So if you want a sex change, Then go for it!

I am just saying that you cannot force the rest of the world to operate in your misconceived perception of yourself, You cannot change your government identification you cannot force me to call you what you want etc.
Debate Round No. 2
CraneTechnique

Pro

The feelings and rights of differently gendered folks are my argument in paragraph one. If you disagree with me, You must not care about their feelings or want them to have equal rights.

It is inherently morally wrong to cause needless harm to sentienr beings. By refusing to accept any identity someone may have you are risking subjecting them to emotional harm. Since merely accepting the label of a person's choice causes no harm to society, And reduces harm caused to people, It is inherently unreasonable to disagree with me.
ConservativeDebating

Con

Pro has made no new arguments in the last round and has not responded to the logic of anything that I have outlined above. In the only two paragraphs pro outlines the following arguments:
(1) The feelings of differently gendered folks matter. You don't care about their feelings or equal rights.
(2) If I don't accept the label, I'm causing emotional harm.

Response to (1):
Firstly, This is a non-starter. I care about all people equally, You literally have no idea who I am in real life, You have no basis to insinuate that I don't care about people.
Secondly, I never said they did not matter. People who identify as male, Female, Bigender, Nogender, Demigender, Attack helicopter, Potato, All have the same rights. I could not give any less f*ck as to what you identify as, If you want to think you are a male when you are a male, I accept that. The problem comes in with the entire multiple paragraphs of argumentation that I mentioned above. You cannot legally force me to be 'nice' to you. If I think a girl looks ugly like a dude (when she identifies as a girl) I should be able to call her a dude. That is very rude of me, And I wouldn't do that in an actual situation. But, This is an example of how it does not matter whether there is one or infinite genders. Similar, You cannot legislate a rule requiring me to call you what you want, Its an infringement on our god-given right to freedom of speech. You have not contested this original part of my argument, Which is an independent reason to vote for con.
I will talk about the 'equal rights' bit later.

Response to (2):
Yes it is wrong to 'cause needless harm'. This is why I wouldn't do it. In fact, I have both a friend that I've known since high-school as well as a extended family member that are transgender. I treat them with as much respect as I would any other person. The problem comes with abstracting this to a matter of public policy.

Key Takeaway:
Even though pro has called me a bad person that wants to unnecessarily harm people and don't care about feelings or rights, The have neglected literally the only topic of the debating, Which is the question of whether or not there are infinite genders. Let me summarize the arguments that have gone answered.

Science - On a factual level, Gender is the cultural component corresponding to each of the sexes. There are two sexes, There are two genders. Even if I were to concede there's some third 'bigender', The is certainly NOT an infinite number of genders, And therefore pro is disproven.

Self-Defeatism - If gender can be anything, Then it means nothing. This was never addressed. Let's think logically for a second, Gender makes sense because its constrained to the binary that is sex. If you can be anything you want as your gender, Then the term itself has no meaning. What does is mean, For example, If I tell you that my gender is a network of electrical components because I feel like I operate as a computer? What if I told you my new gender has changed, And now it is the inanimate object that is an xbox controller because I don't have to provide a reason if you don't like it then you're not caring about my feelings and being discriminatory? See where this goes? The term would ultimately mean nothing.

Even if you side with pro on this issue, There is no clear attempt to respond to my arguments or even continue to provide a forward reason why there is/should be infinite genders.

Thanks.
-Conservative Debater
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by IsaiahWood 2 years ago
IsaiahWood
There is only 2, God said male and female, End of story, Plus, Ive never seen anyone that does not look like a male of female. . . . . . . My expirence.
Posted by anc2006 2 years ago
anc2006
there are 4 technically: male(cis men) female(cis women) both(pan, Fluid, Bi) neither(a)
Posted by TheUnexaminedLife 2 years ago
TheUnexaminedLife
The concept of infinity cannot be applied to something finite like the human ability to name in language different variations of gender. And of these finite labels for gender expressed, It is right that they are subject to social debate and discourse about their validity and whether society on whole ought to recognise them as valid.
Posted by Phil-E-CheeseSteak 2 years ago
Phil-E-CheeseSteak
I don't know if I would say there are infinite number of gender as much as there is an in-numerous number of ways to express your gender identity within the spectrum. Mainly just a semantics difference, But I found that it has more explanatory power when framed like this and people tend to be more open to the idea when structured in this way.
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