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The Instigator
anc2006
Pro (for)
Tied
6 Points
The Contender
ObliviousFellow
Con (against)
Tied
6 Points

There is NO chance a muslim and christian could completely justify their beliefs. Never

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/31/2019 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 390 times Debate No: 123774
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (2)

 

anc2006

Pro

You have no proof that a god of yours exist. You just read a so-called book-of-his when you can't even prove it is god's. God doesn't need to rely on Bible or Quran. He could just change how we are made altogether and erase and construct us on a ionic level. If so much of a god just exists, There would be no bible nor quran as we can be certainly erased if he doesn't like it, Or changed, Not to be scolded by an age-old pseudo-propaganda thousand-page thick book.

If you disagree, Prove how your god exists and give me direct proof OUTSIDE of your book. No iterations encouraged. I want it to be either the god in the religion or nothing, No drifting away.

Haytham is discouraged from this debate as that he is constantly trying to bend the reality and is too stubborn to be convinced anything that means anything, And instead blocks everybody's argument with prayers and blind faith and nothing else, Really.

Dsjpk5 is allowed to vote from this debate as the skill shown from his debate and the experience shown from his votes are considerable.
ObliviousFellow

Con

While there are hundreds of scientific and philosophical arguments for (and against) God's existence, The existence of a more specific "Yahweh" or "Allah" is nearly impossible to prove within the realm of science and philosophy. If you are debating from the perspective of an atheist, I suggest you change the debate topic to the existence of a god rather than Yahweh or Allah, As proving the existence of a god should go before proving which god it is that exists. But for now, I suppose that I shall debate for the existence of Yahweh, Or even Allah, So that I am not wasting this slot for an argument.

The prior existence of Jesus is backed up by two things. First, His prominence among these two major world religions: Christianity and Islam. In Christianity, Jesus is both the incarnate of Yahweh and the sacrifice he sends so that men may be cleaned of his "sins" (how he is both is something Christians debate amongst themselves, So let"s not get into that). In Islam, Jesus was a great prophet sent by Allah. In the Christian"s Bible, Jesus is despised by the Jews because they believed that he was no more than a fraud pretending to be God. Modern Jews do not object to the existence of Jesus, As there is enough historical evidence to prove his existence, But they do not believe that he was the incarnate of Yahweh. Three major world religions which roughly 4. 1 billion people are a part of, Or nearly 53% of the world's population, Either believe in or at least indirectly acknowledge the existence of the man named Jesus. Well, Actually there are a few more religions which acknowledge, Even revere the man. Those being Hinduism, Buddhism, And Mormonism (which technically branched off of Christianity). So that makes it approximately 5. 516 billion, Or right at 70%. That is a lot of people. As stated before, There are historical records to go on top of that. The existence of Jesus is even acknowledged by many agnostics and atheists. Oh, And not a single academic scholar today with a Ph. D. In a relevant field of study claims that Jesus did not exist. Have you ever read an article that argued against the existence of Jesus that was written by someone who had a "Ph. D. " before their name? Probably not. And if you"re wondering why I didn"t go into detail on the historical evidence, That is because I am not focusing on that in this argument. I guess I shouldn"t have mentioned it in that case.

So there you have it: my argument for the existence of Jesus" existence. Now, I shall argue for the existence of God using the undeniable (according to 70% of the world"s population, That is) existence of Jesus Christ. First, Christians believe that Jesus was and is Yahweh. Second, Muslims believe that Jesus was a great prophet of Allah. Third, Jews believe that Jesus existed but was not Yahweh, Although there are some Jews today who do actually believe that he was. Hinduism acknowledges that Jesus is one of the many gods, And just an all around cool dude. Buddhists believe that Jesus existed, But they don"t believe he is God or that there is any God for that matter; but they believe Jesus was a good person nonetheless. Mormons believe that Christ is the result of, Well, I"d rather not go over that one actually. All six of the world"s most prominent religions acknowledge Jesus was a man, Two believe he was a great prophet of their respective God, One believes that he was a fraud pretending to be their God, And one believes that he was and is their God. So regardless of who or what he was as a man, Just his existence proves that a God exists; whichever one it may be. Some religions believe he was God, Some religions believe that he worked for God, And some religions believe that he was not God; therefore, There is a God and no one can figure out Jesus" relationship to Him. I would go into more detail but it is 4:16 AM as of now and I am tired. Oh, And this is an original argument on my part, So there will be no arguments for you to look up online or anywhere else. Unless you want to look up arguments against Jesus' existence, That is. If you do try to argue that Jesus did not exist, Please provide the sources that you use to do so. Good luck!
Debate Round No. 1
anc2006

Pro

It is pretty easy to respond to your walls and dunters of text, As there are pretty much only 1 point:
1) Jesus exist, Thus Christianity is correct.

However, Although there is direct evidence that Jesus exist on this world, There is no definitive evidence that Jesus represented the theism. There is no evidence that he represented that god really, Except by the Bible, Which its authenticity is very questionable.

So according to your logic, Because Jesus simply exists, Thus Christianity is true! However there is another possibility where he is a fraud of a god and thus is not true, Then Christianity is pretty much a made up story taking considerable amount of thw world.

So I can make a conclusion here: Because there is 100% that the possibility of their god not existing exists, Meaning you can't eliminate the chance that there will still be a possibility that god does not exist, AND there is nothing else to prove it else than free faith which is sometimes blind.

There is pretty much no need to further reiterate my argument as I did respond with 1 thing you seem to not respond:
2) Jesus doesn't mean god exist, As Jesus can be a fraud.
ObliviousFellow

Con

I was not trying to prove that the Christian religion is true. Let me say this part again: in Christianity he is their God, In Judaism he is not their God, And in Islam he works for their God. His existence does not prove the validity of a single specific religion but rather the existence of a God (notice the indefinite article). So no, My point was not that "Jesus exists, Thus Christianity is correct. " You mention at the end of your debate that Jesus doesn't mean God exists, As Jesus can be a fraud. My rebuttal to this that yes, He could have been a fraud. Afterall, That is what the Jews believe him to be: a fraud that was pretending to be their God (the key point here is that there is a God to pretend to be).

My point was that, Regardless of his relationship to a God, There is a God to be related to. Not that the existence of Jesus proves that Christianities God exists specifically, Or that the religion is valid. The same goes for Islam, Judaism, And all other religions. We can use philosophy and theoretical science to try and prove the existence of a God all that we want, But throughout history the most efficient way of proving the existence of something has been looking for evidence of said thing all around the world via historic records, Eye witnesses, And other such sources of information. Jesus is the most prominent and recurring figure in human history. I doubt that 70% of the world's population would know or even respect him if never did was he did while in the Roman Empire. The crucifixion is also historically, And even scientifically proved by means of finding when the only solar eclipse occurred during that point in history (when he was crucified the "world went dark"). In the end the debate should not be whether or not Jesus proves that a God exists, But rather which God he is related to.

Also, While I am pleased with the quality of your debate, I would advise that you read over my debates a few more times than you did my first one. Your confusion regarding what my debate meant is a result of rushing to prove your point. Take your time, My friend, And think before you speak. Oh, And those "walls and dunders of text" took me four hours to write, So I can understand you not wanting to re-read a few more times then you did. I am a mad-lad when it comes to writing. Good luck!
Debate Round No. 2
anc2006

Pro

Ok Sorry to flex, But I can write the amount you did in about 15 mins or less and refuting your argument took 10 mins. For real.

Back to the logic: I did read what you are talking about.

"My point was that, Regardless of his relationship to a God, There is a God to be related to. "

Your job is to justify that your belief is right, And others are wrong: you can prove whatever thing there is. If you said that it exists but you didn't prove it is really correct, You are not even on the right track.

"Not that the existence of Jesus proves that Christianities God exists specifically, Or that the religion is valid. The same goes for Islam, Judaism, And all other religions. We can use philosophy and theoretical science to try and prove the existence of a God all that we want, But throughout history the most efficient way of proving the existence of something has been looking for evidence of said thing all around the world via historic records, Eye witnesses, And other such sources of information. "

Because the existence of Jesus doesn't prove the Christian's god's existence and further justifies it, Because of it you have no evidence other than the people, Which their mind could be altered. Your religion is not justified as that there are only witnesses which are NO evidence if they are just lying. The solar eclipse thing is not justified as Jesus have no powers to summon a sub-earth size rock rotating the earth on top of it. And nope: it is just a normal coincidence. If I speak of the devil in the 2017 eclipse, Then still: No one will trust I bought the eclipse consider it is predictable.

Wiki said: This is a list of solar eclipses in the 1st century. During the period 1 to 100 there were 248 solar eclipses of which 90 were partial, 75 were annular (one non-central), 58 were total, And 25 were hybrids. The greatest number of eclipses in one year was five, In 18 and 83. Three months, August 7, July 18, And April 97 had two eclipses. [1]
It is so predictable that coincidences could just exist.

You cannot justify the Christian god's existence consider there is no god that both create an existing sin system and constantly commits his own sin himself. There is no God that can just make new neurons in our bodies but instead want for the less useful book, A human would use. If you can, Show me why Christianity is right and Atheism is not right.
ObliviousFellow

Con

You cannot debate Christianity versus atheism before theism versus atheism. The whole purpose of my first argument (the one you could have written in fourteen minutes due to your intellectual superiority) was to first prove that theism is justified so that I could then narrow it down to a single religion, Which would have been Christianity. Regarding what you said about the eclipse, That was a lack of information on my part and I forgot to go into further detail on it; that is my bad. I also apologize for making assumptions regarding how well you looked into my debate; that was also my bad. Now, I will make my case for Christianity. Also, Please no more ad hominem arguments. The fact that you could have written what I wrote in fourteen minutes is completely irrelevant and does nothing but attack me as a person. Even though I normally would not care, It is not welcome in a professional debate. Other than that, I sincerely applaud your performance!

"God doesn't need to rely on Bible or Quran. He could just change how we are made altogether and erase and construct us on an ionic level. If so much of a god just exists, There would be no bible or Quran as we can certainly be erased if he doesn't like it, Or changed, Not to be scolded by an age-old pseudo-propaganda thousand-page thick book. " The whole point of Christianity is that God gave man the choice to either serve him or to serve the world. He also does not break his own law or commit his own sins. He could have made mindless servants, Such as his angles, Whose only purpose is to serve him; but where is the glory in that? He wanted to create conscious, Freethinking beings that could choose to serve him or rebuke him. Being served by someone who isn't being forced at gunpoint to serve you is, In my opinion, A lot cooler. The fact that you do not believe in a god and that I do illustrates this concept. You have the choice to either believe or not believe. You choose not to believe because you are a conscious, Self-aware being that would only be following its primal instincts if it were simply a matter of chance. We are the only self aware species in existence (past what can be taught, Such as "I am" etc), Therefore we must have been created with the specific intent of making our own decisions.

I am done debating now, As I do not believe there is enough time in this debate for me to fully develop my arguments. I am also done debating religious topics as a whole; I'm a politician, Not a theologian. Once more, I applaud you for your performance. Good luck (with the votes)!
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
I don't hate anyone. If backwards voted legitimately (he knows how), I'd do nothing. I don't have a problem with anyone winning. But I do have an issue with invalid votes.
Posted by anc2006 2 years ago
anc2006
I am not sad about that I am not winning, But Dsjpk5, You shouldn't just counter someone's vote because of hate. If you think my arguments are better then vote me instead. Don't just go for the other person.
Posted by Phil413 2 years ago
Phil413
Interesting to note that if someone says they were born to love someone of the same sex or that they were born a certain gender other than their biological gender, We are just supposed to accept the "born that way" speech without any evidence whatsoever, But when it comes to religion, Any religion, With a few they will not believe in a higher power until there is 100% physical proof right in front of them. Why is that? What is it about the concept of religion that irritates people to the core? Is it the fear of what awaits them? Or is it just arrogance that man, And man alone is responsible for everything in their life and how dare anyone tell them what to do?
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
@ObliviousFellow - "I am starting off by proving the existence of a God. " Which god? I see. The supposed christian god in which there is more than one god mentioned in your bible. So which god? And why only one god? Why not thousand, Millions, Billions, Quadrillions? Or the very best bet is no gods because you cannot prove that any god exists. After all, Nobody in the entire existence of the human race has ever proven that ---any--- god from ---any--- religion exists. You would have to test, Demonstrate and then once that's done assert and then once that's done declare your unproven character storybook god of print only. So how exactly would you do this? No one else has. Then what you would be required to do is submit your ideals to any scientific community of merit from around the world that is not theistic (after all you cannot be biased) and get a passing grade. So what makes YOU better than everyone else who has attempted in trying and obviously failed? Because if true, Then your unproven character storybook god of print only would POOF leap off the pages of YOUR bible and SHEBANG become true. Wow. No god, Especially the unproven god of the bible in which case this debate is based on, Supposedly, Has characterized, Never proven itself to be tangible, And is of faith only which is the most peached thing in the bible. Go figure.
Posted by ObliviousFellow 2 years ago
ObliviousFellow
I would like to give the readers and my opponent in this debate a word of clarification: I am starting off by proving the existence of a God. When I am done proving that there is a God I will attempt shed light on his more specific identity.
Posted by anc2006 2 years ago
anc2006
"The list goes on, But it's the same conclusion from those that have no religion, And that is they want solid, Concrete proof that God exists. Well, Why do you need proof of it? I say the same thing I always say when I see this presented, And that is this: I don't have to prove God exists; you have to prove He doesn't. "

Because I want to have REAL FACTS about your god so I can trust you. This is why I am agnostic: I personally doesn't know how to prove if God exist or not, So instead I sted in the middle.
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
@anc2006 - You're finally getting it. No one CAN prove ---any--- god from --- any--- religion. Congrants. Now even if someone could prove that the christian or the muslim god exists, There's no reason to believe in it because a person can simply believe in oneself especially considering that both of them according to the text are pure terrorism. And why believe in a BOOK of all things? No true god is ever going to "God doesn't need to rely on Bible or Quran. " which is very true with all of its fallacies.
Posted by Phil413 2 years ago
Phil413
"Show me proof". "Prove to me God exists". The list goes on, But it's the same conclusion from those that have no religion, And that is they want solid, Concrete proof that God exists. Well, Why do you need proof of it? I say the same thing I always say when I see this presented, And that is this: I don't have to prove God exists; you have to prove He doesn't.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
anc2006ObliviousFellowTied
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Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: Countering backwards poor vote.
Vote Placed by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
anc2006ObliviousFellowTied
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Total points awarded:51 
Reasons for voting decision: Con "Jesus is despised by the Jews because they believed that he was no more than a fraud pretending to be God." False. "Those being Hinduism, Buddhism, And Mormonism (which technically branched off of Christianity)." False. Pro "2) Jesus doesn't mean god exist, As Jesus can be a fraud." True. Con "in Christianity he is their God," To some. Not all. "Eye witnesses, And other such sources of information. Jesus is the most prominent and recurring figure in human history." Doesn't make it true/ a god. "The crucifixion is also historically, And even scientifically proved by means of finding when the only solar eclipse occurred during that point in history (when he was crucified the "world went dark")." False. Jeez no evidence to support Con's claims and presents false information with no research done and no sources to back up his claims. Pro wins.

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