The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
5murfed
Con (against)

Why believe in the unproven god of the bible that CLEARLY believes suffering is a GOOD thing?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/27/2019 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 305 times Debate No: 123698
Debate Rounds (4)
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backwardseden

Pro

First answer this question in which case no one, Not one person has been able to. . . "What can children possibly learn from suffering? " If you've answered "nothing", You've answered correctly.
Second, Let's get one thing positively and absolutely clear. . . A broken leg, A shattered arm, A collapsed lung, That's not true suffering of any kind.
Try being 4 years old, Getting raped, Beaten and tortured by your stepfather for 13 years sometimes twice per week. That's only the start of your horrors. You then run away from home, Get married, You have a kid, Get a divorce, The state takes your kid. You then jump off of a high dive into a pool with no water. Of course you survive. You now walk with a severe limp and agonizing horrific pain. The hospitals will not give you anything to control the pain. So you do the only thing you can do. You prostitute yourself so you can buy your crack and cocaine because that will kill the pain. You then get AIDS and die. This person probably didn't have a single happy week in her entire life. She knew what suffering was.

There's worse. Imagine you being 6 years old and raped and being raped so bad by your father that your vagina turns into your a$$. I cannot even contemplate this and neither can you.

You REALLY think that the unproven storybook character god of print only from the bible exists? Think real hard now. NOT in any possible way IF and only IF it is kind caring and loving.

dsjpk5 is disqualified from the voting procedures as he tries to pretend he's god and thus change the voting structure of who wins and loses here on DDO.
5murfed

Con

First, It's not just printed words on paper. The word means something, You should chase that meaning. The idea of the suffering in this world comes form the fall of man. The eating of the fruit, The great and first disobedience. We've seen what happens when people disobey God. Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot listened to God and left, Therefore he didn't die. Noah listened, Therefore he didn't die. This world is suffering itself. Terrible things happen to innocent little children. That's the evil of man. God doesn't exist to serve you. In order to judge anyone, They have to have free will, And with free will comes the ability to disobey God.

If in this life only we have hope in Christ, We are of all men most miserable.
1 Corinthians 15:19

The Word of God has great power. Stop allowing this misguided hate to destroy anything you can have with God.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

What "word" are you referring to? If you are referring to the "bible", Yeah its just blank meaningless useless dogma words on paper. In truth who says that ANY of the bible is true? YOU nor anyone can prove that ANY of it is. After all there"s no possible way that it can be proven as to who ---any--- of the authors were, Yes that includes Moses. There"s a good 1, 000 supermassive hypocritical contradictions and inconsistencies in your bible making it unreadable. There"s copies upon copies upon translations upon translations upon dead languages upon dead languages that have died off with absolutely no possible way to trace any of it back to the original because no original exists in the first place. So EVERYBODY, No exceptions, None, Is misinterpreting. Suppose that there is an original? Who"s going to interpret from this original and get it right so that each translation and update that is required is going to get the same exact message throughout eternity which is a true impossibility simply because of translations terminology differences. "And and and" is going to mean something completely different in another translation to "the the the". Even better? What if these interpreters misinterpret as they all do with no questions asked? Even better? Who gives these interpreters the right to CHANGE anything that these characters say especially with the updates that there are in your bible? Simple. Compare the KJV to the NLT. Especially with your lead characters of your god and christ. Its truly pathetic. Now with all of these truly hideous fatalities in "word" alone, There"s absolutely no possible way that a true genuine god would have not foreseen all of these fatalities and would not ever, Not for any reason, Use "word", Namely your bible, As a form of communication, Advertisement, Correspondence, The worst form of communication possible advertisement, Correspondence TO A GOD.
Here"s a few examples"
* In the Bishop"s bible, The one before the KJV, The word "Tyrant" was used I don"t know how many times (its at least 400 from what completed records show) and then in the KJV that was replaced by "King". WHAT? Tyrant and King are two different and totally apples and oranges with each having totally different meanings.
* In Isaiah 45:7 KJV "I form the light, And create darkness: I make peace, And create evil: I the Lord do all these things. " In the NIV version, Its "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, The Lord, Do all these things. " In the NLT its "I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, The Lord, Am the one who does these things. The words "evil" and "disaster" and "bad" are 3 completely different words that have 0% of nothing to do with each other and completely change the meaning of the verses. With each different verse, The messages are completely different. The synonyms of each word don"t even match.
Which version is correct if any that millions are reading? Doesn"t any thinking moron not know that no god would allow this kind of crap to not allow any kind of passing the grade and thus no god, Not for any reason among many reasons, Would never even contemplate using "word" as a form of communication, Advertisement, Correspondence TO ANY GOD? So what's left? Faith? Do you ---really--- want to get into faith? Science doesn't work because no science was mentioned in the bible AT ALL of any kind to explain its god's existence.

Absolutely not do the "words" mean something especially when it comes to suffering. Why chase any meaning whatsoever when an unproven storybook character god of print only should make it blatantly clear of who it is, What it is about, What its rules and laws are, How it should be idolized and worshiped in which is such a joke etc etc etc?

There's no such thing as "the fall of man". That's entirely a localized made up goop to bring in terror in an attempt to fear the power of control which is what nearly all religions are focused on. 2 people who were children and only given one chance only are NOT in any possible way, Especially with a talking snake, The fall of man. Yeah Adam and Eve in which there's no possible way there's proof of their existence, Had every right to disobey an unproven storybook character god of print only.

"We've seen what happens when people disobey God. " Actually "we've" seen nothing except stories of terror, Intimidation, Horror, Fright, But nothing of peace. In fact, This unproven god's inception, There's not been 50 years, Just 50 years of peace, Not anywhere, Not at any time, Not within any culture. Its hideous especially considering that this supposed god in which has never been proven to even exist, Is supposed to be about peace, Harmony, Love, Care, Kindness, Etc etc etc. Its not. Only evil, Anger, Wrath, Vengeance, Rage, Fury, Jealousy. Jealousy? From a supreme deity? WHAT? Actually any of those emotions from a supreme deity in which it has texted upon in YOUR holy bible? Huh? Ah yes and according to the "word" it neatly passed down those emotions to man so in turn man could learn to hate. Great going unproven storybook character god of print only. Great going man for worshiping it with at least one billion dead all in its supposed god's "good" name on the battlefields alone. Really? Yes. Examine your history. The fall of man is because of YOUR supposed god PE-IR-OD and the shattering belief in it. YOUR bible is a genocide how to be an immoral manual.

"This world is suffering itself. " Yeah because of the belief in your unproven storybook character god of print only.

Now tell me what can children possibly learn from suffering? If you've answered "nothing", You've answered correctly. Naturally you completely and totally avoided answering that question because it is unanswerable.

"Terrible things happen to innocent little children. That's the evil of man. God doesn't exist to serve you. In order to judge anyone, They have to have free will, And with free will comes the ability to disobey God. " What a truly stupid statement made by a stupid person who is completely and totally brainwashed. I get it, I really do. So an adult has the right and the free will to rape beat and torture innocent children because they have the free will to do as such with no power to stop them. That is EXACTLY to the letter what you are saying with utter and total ignorance. In fact, If you believe in YOUR unproven storybook character god of print only, You have no free will, None. There's nothing stated by your unproven god in your babbling baby brained big black book bible to state this. Something to the effect of "I the lord thy god grants man free will. " It doesn't exist. Also since YOUR supposed god does not have free will, Man does not have free will. If your unproven god is omnipotent which means it can travel forwards in time, This means it can travel past its choices. Therefore it will have already known its choices before they are known. That is not free will. Not only that but you are saying that your unproven god gives power to the perpetrator ALWAYS on the first time offense, No exceptions, None, Possibly for more offenses, While the victims ALWAYS suffer, Sometimes horrifically. You also think that the torturing, Abuse and rape of children as an example is a very good thing because free will is more important than the suffering, Agony and pain of them. Your unproven storybook character god of print only is sick, Diseased, Demented, Warped, A true manure roach spread and is an absolute requirement to be eradicated from belief in it.

Christ doesn't come into the picture. It wasn't the messiah anyway. So that's an automatic blot.

"The Word of God has great power. " It most certainly does, Because YOU believe in its pile of genocidal, Immoral garbage.

"Stop allowing this misguided hate to destroy anything you can have with God. " Its your unproven storybook character god of print only that hates in your mummified boring bumbling bible which does not in any possible way prove a god. But it does prove hate. Have you read it? Clearly not.

Tracie Harris "If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That"s the difference between me and your god. He watches and shuts the door and you go ahead and you rape that child and when you're done I"m gonna punish you. If I did that people would think I"m a freakin" monster. "

Tracie Harris "Here"s the problem with the "Free Will" thing" If god created the universe, And god knew everything hat would happen in the universe before he created it, Then god has chosen ALL outcomes. He selected for every for every outcome" Every child that is sexually molested, Every person who is murdered, Every genocide that happened, God sat there browsing through his possible universes and said "I want the one with the genocides and the rapes and the child abuses and the hate and the you know, He picked it, All of it! The global warming, I want earthquakes, He knew this would occur and he did it, Right? Even though there"s passages in the bible where god doesn't know stuff, K like there"s times when god causes the flood, Says he ---REGRETTED MAKING MAN---! How do you regret something that early on that this is what I want to have happen? God wants all of this to happen. He knew it would happen. And he chose for this universe. He knew Adam and Eve would eat of this fruit, He knew man would fall and all of this destruction. Right? He knew it. And yet somehow "I"m sorry I did this. " Like what you ---knew--- what was going to happen? It worked out exactly like god knew what was going to happen. And then he killed everybody on the planet for ---THEIR--- screw ups. Its completely messed up. Yeah but he knew! He knew he would end up slaughtering ever human being, Man woman, Child, Baby on the planet! Why would he select a universe where all this garbage was going to happen? Why? And how are we responsible when its a god that orchestrated this s--t? "
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 4
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