The Instigator
athiestguy
Con (against)
The Contender
Skye2468
Pro (for)

is there a god?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/5/2020 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 336 times Debate No: 123972
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

athiestguy

Con

if god exists then how if we have no proof. We have baffled on about this topic for a long time in human history and i would like to put it to a conclusion. Personally im an atheist and i want to try and persuade you because i want to know your opinion and use mine to help everyone to come and understand were everyone is at in this topic. In my opinion its lie saying there's fairy's at the bottom of the garden there is no proof is there?
Skye2468

Pro

Hey, Thank you for posting this debate. To me it seems as though this doesn't necessarily have to be a debate, But a discussion. I don't think neither of us should just be arguing just to win in this debate. Lets reason with each other and try and understand where we each are at just as you said. I look forward to having this debate with you.

I guess to start this debate off I will ask, What would be proof to you of God's existence? Or what would be evidence to you of Gods existence?
If I don't know what evidence or proof you are looking for, I will not be able to get anywhere.

I do want to say though, Even if there was one hundred percent zero proof of God's existence that doesn't prove he does not exist. All that would mean is that there is no proof, But something can exist without proof.
If I had a phone and the phone got stolen and went missing. I might not have proof I ever had a phone, But that does not mean the phone does not exist.

Since we as humans have limited knowledge. That could mean God exists in a realm you have not discovered yet. We would have to have all knowledge to be able to say one hundred percent God is not real. Since we don't have all knowledge we cannot say God is not real. It is impossible for anyone to know that God is not real.

However it is not impossible to know that God is real. Since God himself could prove himself individually to someone. Which means someone can know he is real, While it is impossible for anyone to know he is not real.

By the way I do believe in the God of the Bible, But I am not specifically aiming to prove the God of the Bible at the moment. Right now I am just focusing on showing that it is possible for someone to know of Gods existence, And that it is impossible for anyone to know he is not real.
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Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Skye2468 2 years ago
Skye2468
Keplor -

I completely agree that if someone saw something or had a vision it does not mean it was real, But it could of been real, And could of been proof to someone individually.

For example, Lets say four guys came up to you all claiming they know something to be true.
One says, He saw a unicorn.
Another says, He heard zeus talk to him.
Another says, He believes in the flying spaghetti monster.
Then the last one says the God of the Bible has revealed himself to him.

We could assume all four of these claims are false, But what if one of them were true? It could be very well possible that one of these were true. Something can be true without proof that shows everyone else, Or even without proof to anyone.

That's all my point is right now that I am arguing. I could very well know God exists because he could prove himself to me individually. God could also prove himself to someone in a way that would seem foolish to another.

Just consider this atleast, If the God of the Bible is true it says that the world is blinded by the devil. If this fact is true then how would you know there is no evidence if you are blinded to it?

Also what if the way you are seeking God is not the way to find God?

I do agree it takes faith, But here is the thing. There is a difference between faith and blind faith. I believe the God of the Bible does not take blind faith. I think there are indirect evidences that point to Him. The main problem is it's normally not an intellectual problem. It is a heart condition.

As for inspiringphilosophy, Did you watch his other videos as well? The one I showed you was only an introduction.
Posted by Keplor 2 years ago
Keplor
I understand what you said, And I responded appropriately. I did not assume that there was no proof, I was working off of your "even if" scenario and only stated my opinion at the end of the comment. Zeus, The flying spaghetti monster, And fairies could all reveal themselves to a person as well, God is not unique in this way. Whether it's Zeus, FSP, Fairies, Or Yahweh, A personal experience is not proof and a person thinking that something is real only through visions or improbable experiences despite there being no evidence (what if scenario again) is foolish to say the least. Is believing in Bigfoot a totally reasonable conclusion if you think you saw him? Obviously, No, It is not.

By evidence, I mean the same kind of evidence that allowed us to arrive at the conclusions of scientific theories and laws or actual verifiable facts. Demonstrating God would be a great way to go about it, But it's never been done an I assume you don't think it can be. A valid logical proof would be nice, But that has never happened either. If someone could present convincing evidence, I would change my mind. This has never happened. Don't be so concerned with the exact type of evidence I want, But put yourself in my place and ask yourself, "would I be convinced by this evidence? "

I understand the information presenting in InspiringPhilosophy's video, But I think you should know that he is a notoriously unreliable source who consistently uses logical fallacies within the precedes of his arguments. He didn't exactly go into any historical arguments for the resurrection in his video, But I know a video that does: Philosophical Failures of Christian Apologetics, Part 8: Historical Jesus. The guy is pretty rude, But he makes good points.
Posted by Skye2468 2 years ago
Skye2468
Keplor -

Notice in my statement "Even if there was one hundred percent zero proof of God's existence that doesn't prove he does not exist"

I said "Even if. " I am not saying there "is" no evidence. I am just making a point that "even if" there was no evidence.

I disagree with your statement, "But at that point we could say he doesn't exist as sure as we could say that anything doesn't exist like Zeus, The flying spaghetti monster, Or fairies. "

Like I said in round 1 in this debate. God could prove himself to an individual person. If he indeed did that. Then he is real. Regardless of if I can't prove all these different gods or mythical creatures. It would not change the fact God did that and therefore someone can know for a fact he exists. While you still don't know because your limited knowledge. Matter of fact even if he didn't prove himself individually to someone that would not make him not real either.

"The burden of proof is on the person stating that God exists" Please check out this video if you get a chance it's pretty short.

1. The Resurrection of Jesus (Introduction)
InspiringPhilosophy
https://www. Youtube. Com/watch? V=-ErnJF_nwBk&list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TUYymBPce08oyuhnHLLkR_B&index=1

"I would definitely say that we are in fact at that point of zero evidence. "
Just like in this debate. I need to know what you mean by evidence. There are different types of evidence.
Posted by Keplor 2 years ago
Keplor
"Even if there was one hundred percent zero proof of God's existence that doesn't prove he does not exist", You're right, But at that point we could say he doesn't exist as sure as we could say that anything doesn't exist like Zeus, The flying spaghetti monster, Or fairies. The burden of proof is on the person stating that God exists, If there is no proof, We really can conclude that he doesn't exist as sure as the flying spaghetti monster. I would definitely say that we are in fact at that point of zero evidence.
Posted by athiestguy 2 years ago
athiestguy
good point but keep it friendly please i wanted this to be a discussion not a full out argument that could possibly upset people thanks
Posted by backwardseden 2 years ago
backwardseden
@Skye2468 "What would be proof to you of God's existence? " Eliminating the bible and all texts entirely as any true god would and talking to every single man, Woman and child and let ---everybody--- know what it's laws, Rules and regulations are. Obviously rules like the 10 commandments in which 9 out of thed 10 are completely worthless as an example. (Sorry there is no "the law" from YOUR christ to repeal them = betcha and even if you somehow find it, It does not prove a god). AND then telling everybody that it is the one true god and not some fake or forgery that YOU are led on to believe in because YOU have no idea which god YOU believe in because after all there are over 33, 480 at the last count of christian denominations. AND there would also have to be something tangible as no true god would ---ever--- under any circumstance require faith from anyone. AND any true god would eliminate ALL SUFFERING especially from children. You STILL cannot answer this. . . What can children possibly learn from suffering? If you've answered "nothing", You've answered correctly. Then you'd have to put this supposed god according to YOUR bible on trial for his crimes against humanity, Easily the biggest genocidal homicidal maniac of all time. Hey, He murdered ALL LIFE in the great flood except for a scant 8 people and 2 of everything which would not allow any species to exist at any rate beyond that for too much longer. Oh, And darn, I almost forgot, Why don't YOU prove that your god exists? Take your proofs to ---any--- scientific community of merit (it cannot be theistic of course because you cannot be biased in which case you know you are), So they can, And will laugh you right out of their building(s)? Yeah you will ---never--- do this. Why not? This means you really don't have a case for believing in YOUR god now does it?
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