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Scriptures prove Jesus was not God

Harikrish
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1/24/2018 2:26:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Christians claim Jesus was sacrificed for their sins and salvation. But Jesus himself said the people did not know what they were doing, that they were acting out of ignorance and therefore not responsible.

Luke 23:34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

But he blamed God for betraying him on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").
12_13
Posts: 2,575
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1/24/2018 10:51:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/23/2018 9:01:57 PM, Harikrish wrote:
... He only spoke in parables that no one understood...

I can understand. :)
Harikrish
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1/25/2018 1:53:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/24/2018 10:51:10 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 1/23/2018 9:01:57 PM, Harikrish wrote:
... He only spoke in parables that no one understood...

I can understand. :)

Which one of his parables convinced you Jesus was God?

New cloth on an old coat (Matthew 9:16; Mark 2:21; Luke 5:36)
New wine in old wineskins (Matthew 9:17; Mark 2:22; Luke 5:37-38)
Lamp on a stand (also see #6) (Matthew 5:14-15)
Wise and foolish builders (Matthew 7:24-27; Luke 6:47-49)
Moneylender forgives unequal debts (Luke 7:41-43)
Lamp on a stand (2nd time, see #3) (Mark 4:21-22; Luke 8:16, 11:33)
Rich man foolishly builds bigger barns (Luke 12:16-21)
Servants must remain watchful (also see #44) (Luke 12:35-40)
Wise and foolish servants (also see #42) (Luke 12:42-48)
Unfruitful fig tree (Luke 13:6-9)
Sower and four types of soil (Matthew 13:3-8, 18-23; Mark 4:3-8, 14-20; Luke 8:5-8, 11-15)
Weeds among good plants (Kingdom of Heaven) (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43)
Growing seed (Kingdom of Heaven) (Mark 4:26-29)
Mustard seed (Kingdom of Heaven) (Matthew 13:31-32; Mark 4:30-32; Luke 13:18-19)
Yeast (Kingdom of Heaven) (Matt 13:33; Luke 13:20-21)
Hidden treasure (Kingdom of Heaven) (Matthew 13:44)
Valuable pearl (Kingdom of Heaven) (Matthew 13:45-46)
Fishing net (Kingdom of Heaven) (Matthew 13:47-50)
Owner of a house (Kingdom of Heaven) (Matthew 13:52)
Lost sheep (sheep as children, also see #29) (Matthew 18:12-14)
The sheep, gate, and shepherd (John 10:1-5, 7-18)
Master and his servant (Luke 17:7-10)
Unmerciful servant (Kingdom of Heaven) (Matthew 18:23-34)
Good Samaritan (Luke 10:30-37)
Friend in need (Luke 11:5-8)
Lowest seat at the feast (Luke 14:7-14)
Invitation to a great banquet (Luke 14:16-24)
Cost of discipleship (Luke 14:28-33)
Lost sheep (sheep as sinners, also see #20) (Luke 15:4-7)
Lost coin (Luke 15:8-10)
Lost (prodigal) son (Luke 15:11-32)
Shrewd manager (Luke 16:1-8)
Rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31)
Workers in the vineyard, early and late (Matthew 20:1-16)
Persistent widow and crooked judge (Luke 18:2-8)
Pharisee and tax collector (Luke 18:10-14)
King"s ten servants given minas (also see #45) (Luke 19:12-27)
Two sons, one obeys one does not (Matthew 21:28-32)
Wicked tenants (Matt 21:33-44; Mark 12:1-11; Luke 20:9-18)
Invitation to a wedding banquet (Matthew 22:2-14)
Signs of the future from a fig tree (Matthew 24:32-35; Mark 13:28-29; Luke 21:29-31)
Wise and foolish servants (2nd time, see #9) (Matthew 24:45-51)
Wise and foolish virgins (Matthew 25:1-13)
Servants must remain watchful (2nd time, see #8) (Mark 13:35-37)
Three servants given talents (also see #37) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Sheep and goats will be separated (Matthew 25:31-46)
12_13
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1/25/2018 9:13:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/25/2018 1:53:13 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/24/2018 10:51:10 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 1/23/2018 9:01:57 PM, Harikrish wrote:
... He only spoke in parables that no one understood...

I can understand. :)

Which one of his parables convinced you Jesus was God?

Jesus said that there is only one true God that is greater than him. So, Jesus is not the one and only true God according to the Bible, even though he has God"s authority on earth.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

" the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28
Harikrish
Posts: 29,658
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1/25/2018 9:32:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/25/2018 9:13:39 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 1/25/2018 1:53:13 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/24/2018 10:51:10 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 1/23/2018 9:01:57 PM, Harikrish wrote:
... He only spoke in parables that no one understood...

I can understand. :)

Which one of his parables convinced you Jesus was God?

Jesus said that there is only one true God that is greater than him. So, Jesus is not the one and only true God according to the Bible, even though he has God"s authority on earth.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

Jesus prayed for the safety of his disciples. But we know they like him were all killed.

John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[b] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

" the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28
John 14:30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming.

Jesus has to exit and make way for the prince of this world who is Satan.

Now those are not parables nor do they convince you Jesus was God. So you seem to agree Jesus was not God. But that makes him a blasphemous liar and lunatic.
12_13
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1/26/2018 9:24:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/25/2018 9:32:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Jesus prayed for the safety of his disciples. But we know they like him were all killed.

John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[b] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

In that Jesus speaks about that they are one, not that their body doesn"t die.

Now those are not parables nor do they convince you Jesus was God. So you seem to agree Jesus was not God. But that makes him a blasphemous liar and lunatic.

I agree with the teachings of the Bible and according to it, Jesus is the temple of God, God dwells in Jesus and Jesus speaks the words of God. There is no intelligent reason to believe Jesus is liar or lunatic.
Harikrish
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1/26/2018 10:11:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/26/2018 9:24:52 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 1/25/2018 9:32:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Jesus prayed for the safety of his disciples. But we know they like him were all killed.

John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[b] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

In that Jesus speaks about that they are one, not that their body doesn"t die.

Jesus is praying to God for the safety of his disciples because he was not going to be with them much longer, his crucifixion was days away. But we know they were all killed. Even Jesus's prayer failed to save them.

John 17:12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by[c] that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Jesus reminds God while he was with them, he protected them and kept them safe except for Judas.

Now those are not parables nor do they convince you Jesus was God. So you seem to agree Jesus was not God. But that makes him a blasphemous liar and lunatic.

I agree with the teachings of the Bible and according to it, Jesus is the temple of God, God dwells in Jesus and Jesus speaks the words of God. There is no intelligent reason to believe Jesus is liar or lunatic.
Jesus claimed he was God and the people threatened to stone him for blasphemy.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any good work," they replied, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Claiming to be God made Jesus a liar. His family also declared Jesus was a madman.
Mark 3:21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."

Together these verses prove Jesus was a liar and a lunatic.
Harikrish
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2/7/2018 5:19:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God The Creator

1. Matthew 24:36
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.
Here Jesus makes a distinction between what he knows and what the Father knows.

2. Matthew 26:39
My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me, yet not as I will, but as Thou will.
Jesus" will is likewise autonomous from God"s Will. Jesus is seeking acquiescence to God"s will.

3. John 5:26
For as the Father has life in Himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.
Jesus received his life from God. God received his life from no one. He is eternally self-existent.

4. John 5:30
By myself, I can do nothing: I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who has sent me.
Jesus says, "by myself, I can do nothing." This indicates that Jesus is relying upon his own relationship with God. He is not trying to "please myself" but rather is seeking to "please the one who sent me."

5. John 5:19
The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees the Father doing, because whatever the Father does, the Son does also.
Jesus declares that he is following a pattern laid down by God. He is expressing obedience to God.

6. Mark 10:18
Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone.
Here Jesus emphatically makes a distinction between himself and God.

7. John 14:28
The Father is greater than I.
This is another strong statement that makes a distinction between Jesus and God.

8. Matthew 6:9
Our Father, which art in Heaven.
He didn"t pray, Our Father, which art standing right here!"

9. Matthew 27:46
My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Inconceivable if he is God the Creator.

10. John 17:21-23
. . .that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. . ..that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me.
In this prayer Jesus defines the term "to be one." It is clearly accomplished through the relationship of two autonomous beings. Christian believers are to model their relationship (to become one) after the relationship of God and Christ (as God and Christ are one). Notice that "to be one" does not mean to be "one and the same."

11. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Paul declares that God put everything under Christ, except God himself. Instead God rules all things through Christ. (remember: "through him all things were made.")

12. Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God"s glory and the exact representation of his being.
Jesus is the exact representation of his being. I send my representative to Congress. He is not me, myself. He is my representative.

13. Hebrews 4:15 (compared with James 1:13)
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are"yet without sin.
Jesus has been tempted in every way, just as we are, yet he never sinned. See

James 1:13: When tempted, no one should say, God is tempting me. For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt.
Jesus was tempted in every way, but God cannot be tempted. This is why Jesus said, "don"t call me good, none are good, only God."

14. Hebrews 5:7-9
During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
Jesus claimed he was the source of eternal salvation for all who believed him
graceofgod
Posts: 10,088
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2/7/2018 5:25:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/11/2018 9:37:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
The scriptures prove Jesus was not God.


Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.


No virgin mother or child name Immanuel was found by Ahaz, Isaiah failed!

MATTHEW repeats the same failed prophecy of Isaiah despite knowing it failed.
Matthew 1:23 "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Mary did not name Jesus Immanuel either.

Why would the Romans crucify Jesus if they thought he was God then create the Roman Catholic Church to worship him? Why would the Jews create the God of the bible only to reject him if they thought Jesus was God? And finally why did Jesus tell his disciples not to tell the people who or what he was when his mission was very short (3 years) to make them believe in him for their salvation?
It took Moses 40 years to lead the Jews to the promise land. Jesus was given 3 years to lead the Jews and the Gentiles to salvation which priced unrealistic. Jesus failed!
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven." 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Jesus was a deluded carpenters son who got tangled in his own web of lies and realized on the cross when it was too late and lamented.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

The Jews never claimed Jesus was the of God. They were promised a messiah. They rejected Jesus as their messiah because he fell short of the promise. The Romans ignored the Jew and crucified Jesus, went on to destroy the Holy Temple and replaced Judaism with the Roman Catholic Church, proving once again Jesus was treated as a blasphemous liar and lunatic and put away. That would be impossible if Jesus indeed was the son of God/messiah or God himself.

The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israeland restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).

The New Testament supports the promise and role of the Messiah.
Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,

But we know from Jesus's own words that is not where Jesus is. Jesus is in heaven living in his fathers basement working as a housekeeper.

John 14:2 - My Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?


Jesus made other claims to prove he was God.
John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" - Bible Hub

Adam and many others were created before Abraham. That did not prove Jesus was God.

What we know is Jesus was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. And on the cross he blamed God for his failures.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?")


Even the pope declared Jesus was a failure of the cross.
"And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and not produce fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus Christ and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross."

scripture proves Jesus is God, both are referred to as the alpha and the Omega...
Harikrish
Posts: 29,658
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2/7/2018 6:15:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/7/2018 5:25:35 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/11/2018 9:37:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
The scriptures prove Jesus was not God.


Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.


No virgin mother or child name Immanuel was found by Ahaz, Isaiah failed!

MATTHEW repeats the same failed prophecy of Isaiah despite knowing it failed.
Matthew 1:23 "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Mary did not name Jesus Immanuel either.

Why would the Romans crucify Jesus if they thought he was God then create the Roman Catholic Church to worship him? Why would the Jews create the God of the bible only to reject him if they thought Jesus was God? And finally why did Jesus tell his disciples not to tell the people who or what he was when his mission was very short (3 years) to make them believe in him for their salvation?
It took Moses 40 years to lead the Jews to the promise land. Jesus was given 3 years to lead the Jews and the Gentiles to salvation which priced unrealistic. Jesus failed!
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven." 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Jesus was a deluded carpenters son who got tangled in his own web of lies and realized on the cross when it was too late and lamented.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

The Jews never claimed Jesus was the of God. They were promised a messiah. They rejected Jesus as their messiah because he fell short of the promise. The Romans ignored the Jew and crucified Jesus, went on to destroy the Holy Temple and replaced Judaism with the Roman Catholic Church, proving once again Jesus was treated as a blasphemous liar and lunatic and put away. That would be impossible if Jesus indeed was the son of God/messiah or God himself.

The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israeland restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).

The New Testament supports the promise and role of the Messiah.
Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,

But we know from Jesus's own words that is not where Jesus is. Jesus is in heaven living in his fathers basement working as a housekeeper.

John 14:2 - My Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?


Jesus made other claims to prove he was God.
John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" - Bible Hub

Adam and many others were created before Abraham. That did not prove Jesus was God.

What we know is Jesus was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. And on the cross he blamed God for his failures.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?")


Even the pope declared Jesus was a failure of the cross.
"And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and not produce fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus Christ and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross."

scripture proves Jesus is God, both are referred to as the alpha and the Omega...

The phrase "alpha" means a beginning while the word "Omega" can mean to the end. But it does not tell you beginning and ending of 'what'? You have to deduct that from scriptures.

Mark 3:21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."

Genesis 6:7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created--and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground--for I regret that I have made them."

Jesus is called a madman by his family....God is portrayed as a bumbling genocidal maniac in scriptures.....both are referred to as the alpha and omega ...... which mean from the beginning and to the end......both were lunatics.
graceofgod
Posts: 10,088
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2/7/2018 6:25:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/7/2018 6:15:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/7/2018 5:25:35 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/11/2018 9:37:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
The scriptures prove Jesus was not God.


Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.


No virgin mother or child name Immanuel was found by Ahaz, Isaiah failed!

MATTHEW repeats the same failed prophecy of Isaiah despite knowing it failed.
Matthew 1:23 "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Mary did not name Jesus Immanuel either.

Why would the Romans crucify Jesus if they thought he was God then create the Roman Catholic Church to worship him? Why would the Jews create the God of the bible only to reject him if they thought Jesus was God? And finally why did Jesus tell his disciples not to tell the people who or what he was when his mission was very short (3 years) to make them believe in him for their salvation?
It took Moses 40 years to lead the Jews to the promise land. Jesus was given 3 years to lead the Jews and the Gentiles to salvation which priced unrealistic. Jesus failed!
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven." 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Jesus was a deluded carpenters son who got tangled in his own web of lies and realized on the cross when it was too late and lamented.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

The Jews never claimed Jesus was the of God. They were promised a messiah. They rejected Jesus as their messiah because he fell short of the promise. The Romans ignored the Jew and crucified Jesus, went on to destroy the Holy Temple and replaced Judaism with the Roman Catholic Church, proving once again Jesus was treated as a blasphemous liar and lunatic and put away. That would be impossible if Jesus indeed was the son of God/messiah or God himself.

The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israeland restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).

The New Testament supports the promise and role of the Messiah.
Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,

But we know from Jesus's own words that is not where Jesus is. Jesus is in heaven living in his fathers basement working as a housekeeper.

John 14:2 - My Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?


Jesus made other claims to prove he was God.
John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" - Bible Hub

Adam and many others were created before Abraham. That did not prove Jesus was God.

What we know is Jesus was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. And on the cross he blamed God for his failures.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?")


Even the pope declared Jesus was a failure of the cross.
"And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and not produce fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus Christ and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross."

scripture proves Jesus is God, both are referred to as the alpha and the Omega...

The phrase "alpha" means a beginning while the word "Omega" can mean to the end. But it does not tell you beginning and ending of 'what'? You have to deduct that from scriptures.

Mark 3:21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."

Genesis 6:7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created--and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground--for I regret that I have made them."

Jesus is called a madman by his family....God is portrayed as a bumbling genocidal maniac in scriptures.....both are referred to as the alpha and omega ...... which mean from the beginning and to the end......both were lunatics.

John 1 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.
Harikrish
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2/7/2018 8:25:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/7/2018 6:25:16 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 2/7/2018 6:15:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/7/2018 5:25:35 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/11/2018 9:37:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
The scriptures prove Jesus was not God.


Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.


No virgin mother or child name Immanuel was found by Ahaz, Isaiah failed!

MATTHEW repeats the same failed prophecy of Isaiah despite knowing it failed.
Matthew 1:23 "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

Mary did not name Jesus Immanuel either.

Why would the Romans crucify Jesus if they thought he was God then create the Roman Catholic Church to worship him? Why would the Jews create the God of the bible only to reject him if they thought Jesus was God? And finally why did Jesus tell his disciples not to tell the people who or what he was when his mission was very short (3 years) to make them believe in him for their salvation?
It took Moses 40 years to lead the Jews to the promise land. Jesus was given 3 years to lead the Jews and the Gentiles to salvation which priced unrealistic. Jesus failed!
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[b] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven." 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Jesus was a deluded carpenters son who got tangled in his own web of lies and realized on the cross when it was too late and lamented.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

The Jews never claimed Jesus was the of God. They were promised a messiah. They rejected Jesus as their messiah because he fell short of the promise. The Romans ignored the Jew and crucified Jesus, went on to destroy the Holy Temple and replaced Judaism with the Roman Catholic Church, proving once again Jesus was treated as a blasphemous liar and lunatic and put away. That would be impossible if Jesus indeed was the son of God/messiah or God himself.

The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israeland restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).

The New Testament supports the promise and role of the Messiah.
Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,

But we know from Jesus's own words that is not where Jesus is. Jesus is in heaven living in his fathers basement working as a housekeeper.

John 14:2 - My Father's house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?


Jesus made other claims to prove he was God.
John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" - Bible Hub

Adam and many others were created before Abraham. That did not prove Jesus was God.

What we know is Jesus was crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. And on the cross he blamed God for his failures.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?")


Even the pope declared Jesus was a failure of the cross.
"And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and not produce fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus Christ and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross."

scripture proves Jesus is God, both are referred to as the alpha and the Omega...

The phrase "alpha" means a beginning while the word "Omega" can mean to the end. But it does not tell you beginning and ending of 'what'? You have to deduct that from scriptures.

Mark 3:21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."

Genesis 6:7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created--and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground--for I regret that I have made them."

Jesus is called a madman by his family....God is portrayed as a bumbling genocidal maniac in scriptures.....both are referred to as the alpha and omega ...... which mean from the beginning and to the end......both were lunatics.

John 1 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.

Those are not the words of Jesus, they are from John who is giving his opinion about Jesus. The Bible is full of things said about Jesus. But Jesus himself said very little about himself and what he said were often incoherent, figurative which no one understood.

John 16:25 "Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father.
That time never came. Jesus was crucified shortly after.

Get a red letter bible that highlights the words actually spoken by Jesus and you will understand why his family thought Jesus was a lunatic.
Harikrish
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7/4/2018 12:15:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
From Dee-em's post copied over here because it builds on the argument Harikrish raised in the OP.

Is Isaiah 53 About Israel or About Jesus?
http://www.debate.org...
Some Christians claim that Isaiah 53 is a prophecy about the coming of Jesus. This is for you Saint77.

Isaiah 53
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

The gospels paint Jesus as popular among the people right up to his trial.

Luke 2
52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and in years, and in divine and human favor.

Luke 4
14 Then Jesus, filled with the power of the spirit, returned to Galilee, and a report about him spread through all the surrounding country. 15 He began to teach in their synagogues and was praised by everyone.

Nope, can't be a prophecy about Jesus.

------------------------------------------------------

Isaiah 53
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

Did Jesus go silently to his death?

Matthew 26
39 And going a little farther, he threw himself on the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet not what I want but what you want.

Matthew 27
46 And about three o'clock, Jesus cried with a loud voice, "El, Eli, lema sabachthani?" that is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Nope, can't be a prophecy about Jesus.

------------------------------------------------------

Isaiah 53
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

No violence or deceit?

Luke 19
27 "But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them -- bring them here and slaughter them in my presence."

Matthew 10
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

John 2
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15 And when he had made a whip of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

Nah, can't be a prophecy about Jesus.

------------------------------------------------------

Need I go on?
Lying and/or abusive trolls on permanent ignore: ethang5, skipsaweirdo, dsjpk5, Polytheist_Witch, Studio-B, TKDB, Factseeker.

Isaiah 53 The Suffering Servant offers a Jewish reading of Isaiah 53.
http://www.aish.com...

My scholarly research expands on Isaiah

.Isaiah promised Ahaz God will send him a sign.
Isaiah 7:14"Therefore the Lord himself will give you[c] a sign: The virgin[d] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[e] will call him Immanuel.[f]
But Ahaz never found the virgin mother or her child named Immanuel. Prophecy fail!!

Isaiah 53 was written 711BC. That was 700 years before Jesus arrived on the scene. Jesus's timeline was outside the scope of Isaiah's prophecy. Prophesies were foretellers of events to come and prophets were judge on the accuracy of their fulfillment. So prophesies were only valid within the lifetime of the prophets upon which they were to be judged. How could a prophet be judged if what he said was to occur several hundred years later which would be meaningless to his audience and the generation he was addressing?

Deuteronomy 18:20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death."

How could false prophets be judged if there were no statute of limitation or expiry date to validate the prophecy?

Jesus said he was going to return to fetch those he left behind. 2000 years have passed since the promise was made and Christians have no way to hold jesus accountable. But the Jews did hold Jesus accountable and put an end to his blasphemous liars and lunacy.
Harikrish
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7/4/2018 4:45:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Question: Regarding biblical lineage: Was there ever a time in the course of history when Hebrew lineage was recorded through the female?

Answer: Lineage was tracked through the males throughout the Bible. The only exception is in the case of Jesus because his father was God. You can see this in all the lineages where the fathers are listed. Mothers appear only rarely in such lists.

But can Jesus's lineage be traced to either Joseph (Matthew) or Mary (Luke)?

Joseph and Jeconiah
According to Matthew"s genealogy, Joseph had the blood of Jeconiah in his veins. He was not qualified to sit on David"s throne. He was not the heir apparent. This would also mean that no real son of Joseph would have the right to claim the throne of David. Therefore if Jesus were the real son of Joseph, he would have been disqualified from sitting on David"s throne. Neither could he claim the right to David"s throne by virtue of his adoption by Joseph, since Joseph was not the heir apparent.
But scriptures tell us that Joseph was not the father of Jesus, God was. So that eliminates Matthew's geneology.

According to Luke Mary was told she would be with child. The scriptures tell us Mary was a virgin when she was told the child she was carrying was from God.

Luke 1:29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob"s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end."

34 "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"

35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[b] the Son of God.

Scriptures do not speak of any penetration by the Holy Spurit who came on Mary ( masturbated on her) and God only had shadow sex with Mary like shadow boxing. So there was no exchange of DNA between Mary and God. Mary was just a vessel to carry Jesus a surrogate of sorts.
Even here the geneology of Jesus by Luke can be ignored because of the immaculate conception. No sex, no penetration and no exchange of DNA was involved.

So how does Jesus fulfill the prophesies that the Messiah would be from the lineage of David? Obviously both Matthew and Luke fail to establish the link. Thus leaving Jesus's claim to his messanic title invalid. Jesus was God's little bastard. The Jews called for his crucifixion and the Romans put an end to this Jewish nonsense.
Luke 23:21 - But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!".

John 19:23 When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, they divided His garments into four parts, one for each soldier, with the tunic remaining. It was seamless, woven in one piece from top ...

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
Harikrish
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7/9/2018 9:50:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Jesus was crucified by the Romans. So we know why Jesus was forced to pray for the safety of his disciples. But we know they like him were all killed. Was that incompetence or a powerless God?

John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[b] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

Jesus proclaims the coming of Satan the future Prince of this world after his exit.
John 14:28
John 14:30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me.

Jesus has to exit and make way for the prince of this world who is Satan.

Jesus's ministry lasted only 3 years before it was terminated. The Jews rejected Jesus and the Romans put and end to his nonsense. The Romans crucified Jesus and destroyed the city and holy sanctuary. They replaced Judaism the religion that Jesus followed with the Roman Catholic Church and made the Pope its leader.

The pope described the life of Jesus as a failure and the cross the great failure of God.

Pope Francis said during his whirlwind U.S. tour. "And if at times OUR EFFORTS AND WORKS SEEM TO FAIL AND PRODUCE NO FRUIT, we need to REMEMBER that WE ARE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS we are followers of Jesus ... and His LIFE, humanly speaking, ENDED IN FAILURE, THE FAILURE OF THE CROSS ."

When you don"t understand something, when desperation hits you then look at the cross. THAT IS THE GREAT FAILURE OF GOD, THAT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF GOD, AND IT'S A CHALLENGE TO OUR FAITH.

The Pope is the leader of a billion Catholics. Jesus had trouble managing 12 disciples. Peter lied about Jesus and Judas betrayed Jesus.

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
WisdomOfAges
Posts: 962
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7/10/2018 7:00:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
JESUS is a failed Roman Empire strategy to migrate POWER and CONTROL of the masses with the spin of the JEW GOD into a GOD for the non JEW...

They set up the boy Jesus to be MURDERED and MARTYRED into a new 1 GOD approach
this gave the ROMAN CHURCH the green light to force conversions with FEAR-INTIMIDATION-VIOLENCE without needing an army..the enslaved sheeple drones of the CHURCH were the new army..ordered to go an assimilate in any manner necessary
especially MURDER-RAPE-TORTURE- +++ same Roman Empire strategy...with JESUS as a pathetic scapegoat for the ATROCITIES...

Same with the Allag GOD spin on the Moses JEW GOD...a new name ALLAH a new Comic Book = KORAN...a new order to assimilate with DEATH and DESTRUCTION

Both the Jesus and Allah GOD cults are MURDERERS of the open mind...they demand total OBEDIENCE or SUFFER...it is horrifically OBSOLETE and MUST DIE...

Both Jesus and Allah..Middle East GARBAGE must be relegated to MYTHOLOGY in the section for PSYCHOTIC CRIMES against HUMANITY...

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