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What is a cult?

Tradesecret
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12/13/2019 10:16:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Sometimes the word cult is bandied about. What are the characteristics of a Christian cult?

1. It believes in extra-biblical revelation. The Mormons have the book of Mormon, And others. The JWs have Watchtower, The SDAs have Ellen White and Scientology has Ms Eddy's writings. They all believe the bible is corrupted and require these extra biblical revelations to clarify the truth.

2. They all deny the biblical doctrine of salvation by grace alone. Typically the deny the atonement, But often tend towards perfectionism, Legalism, Good works righteousness.

3. They all diminish the person of Christ and his work.

4. They see their group as the exclusive community of the saved. No one else has the sufficient maturity to add anything constructive.

5. The Group plays a central role in eschatology. In other words, They have specific revelation or dealings with the way they world is going to end or change.

Looking at these 5 key characteristics of a Christian Cult, It is clear that there is much work to be done.

What would you say is a key characteristic of a cult that distinguishes it from the traditional and orthodox church?
Willows
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12/13/2019 11:08:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Sometimes the word cult is bandied about. What are the characteristics of a Christian cult?

1. It believes in extra-biblical revelation. The Mormons have the book of Mormon, And others. The JWs have Watchtower, The SDAs have Ellen White and Scientology has Ms Eddy's writings. They all believe the bible is corrupted and require these extra biblical revelations to clarify the truth.

2. They all deny the biblical doctrine of salvation by grace alone. Typically the deny the atonement, But often tend towards perfectionism, Legalism, Good works righteousness.

3. They all diminish the person of Christ and his work.

4. They see their group as the exclusive community of the saved. No one else has the sufficient maturity to add anything constructive.

5. The Group plays a central role in eschatology. In other words, They have specific revelation or dealings with the way they world is going to end or change.

Looking at these 5 key characteristics of a Christian Cult, It is clear that there is much work to be done.

What would you say is a key characteristic of a cult that distinguishes it from the traditional and orthodox church?

A cult, In general terms is a breakaway from the norm and since there is nothing normal about any Christian Church, The "norm" would be hard to distinguish.

If we look at the norm being the first church we would have to say that any Church that is not Saint Georgeous (230 AD) is a cult.

But then, If one were to asses the norm being the "prevailing view" we would really be getting into murky waters in trying to establish which are the cults.

By far, The most definitive assessment as to which Christian denominations are cults comes from asking any Christian. Without a doubt the prevailing view and universal answer will always be:
"My Church is the right one and every other Church is a cult".

Which seguays to the burning question in the minds of most people who are normal (atheists); what would Christians describe Churches that are not Christian?
Harikrish
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12/14/2019 12:02:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Sometimes the word cult is bandied about. What are the characteristics of a Christian cult?

1. It believes in extra-biblical revelation. The Mormons have the book of Mormon, And others. The JWs have Watchtower, The SDAs have Ellen White and Scientology has Ms Eddy's writings. They all believe the bible is corrupted and require these extra biblical revelations to clarify the truth.

2. They all deny the biblical doctrine of salvation by grace alone. Typically the deny the atonement, But often tend towards perfectionism, Legalism, Good works righteousness.

3. They all diminish the person of Christ and his work.

4. They see their group as the exclusive community of the saved. No one else has the sufficient maturity to add anything constructive.

5. The Group plays a central role in eschatology. In other words, They have specific revelation or dealings with the way they world is going to end or change.

Looking at these 5 key characteristics of a Christian Cult, It is clear that there is much work to be done.

What would you say is a key characteristic of a cult that distinguishes it from the traditional and orthodox church?

Cult definition is - a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents holding unorthodox beliefs.

Jesus Christ held unorthodox beliefs! His beliefs were so unorthodox that they eventually got Him killed! I said it before, "Christ was killed because of what He taught. "

Without Biblical scholarship Religion today has a similar problem. They have heard false teachings for years and they believe these false doctrines rather than what the Bible actually teaches. It will take years for these people to unlearn the errors before they can be deprogrammed.

According to the definitions of a cult, Jesus Christ was a cult leader.

Jesus himself warned many would come claiming he is the Christ and like him deceived many.

Matthew 24:4 Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, Claiming, "I am the Messiah, " and will deceive many.

There were blasphemy laws in ancient times to deal with these false prophets.
Deuteronomy 18:20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, Or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, Is to be put to death. "

Jesus was crucified for what he taught. But no one today is crucified for teaching what Jesus taught. Which is why we have 30, 000 denominations of Christians today.

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
Tradesecret
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12/14/2019 12:18:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
so you don't have anything to add?

I asked for thoughts about Christians cults - not cults in general.
Leaning
Posts: 2,664
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12/14/2019 1:48:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Though there's a number of different definitions and contexts for the word cult, I usually think of it as
a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
So for me it's usually the small and by whatever societies standards, 'strange belief system. Though that's a relative thing I suppose.

I vaguely recall something about Greek cults, But not quite meant by the definition I gave.

There's cults of personality, Though they seem oddly popular for cults. Leaders can seem overly popular, Though those that aren't their followers will often find it creepy.
People not German, Looking at Hitler's popularity cult,
China's Mao, Russia's Stalin, And so on.

Certainly has the odd aspect from an outsider's view, But not the small size part.

Celebrities, Such as musicians have the small part, And not quite as much the odd part, Even if one isn't a fan. Same with cult hit movies.

But back to churches, I would just say when it veers off a fair bit from usual beliefs, Practices, Method, Action, And so on.
Hm, Perhaps I should say veers 'drastically. After all, There's a lot of different denominations. But I wouldn't think one would call Quakers, Calvinists, Or the Amish, For instance cults. Though I suppose some might.

I also forget what Calvinists even believe, But a vague memory insists that there was something a bit different.
Harikrish
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12/14/2019 4:10:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:
so you don't have anything to add?

I asked for thoughts about Christians cults - not cults in general.

My post focuses on the Christian cults origins and is more specific in identifying Jesus as the prototype of Christian cult leaders.

You were wrong about point 3.
3. They all diminish the person of Christ and his work.
All the Christian cults are actually continuing the work of Jesus and in many cases compensating for his failures.

Cult definition is - a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents holding unorthodox beliefs.

Jesus Christ held unorthodox beliefs! His beliefs were so unorthodox that they eventually got Him killed! I said it before, "Christ was killed because of what He taught. "

Without Biblical scholarship Religion today has a similar problem. They have heard false teachings for years and they believe these false doctrines rather than what the Bible actually teaches. It will take years for these people to unlearn the errors before they can be deprogrammed.

According to the definitions of a cult, Jesus Christ was a cult leader.

Jesus himself warned many would come claiming he is the Christ and like him deceived many.

Matthew 24:4 Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, Claiming, "I am the Messiah, " and will deceive many.

There were blasphemy laws in ancient times to deal with these false prophets.
Deuteronomy 18:20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, Or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, Is to be put to death. "

Jesus was crucified for what he taught. But no one today is crucified for teaching what Jesus taught. Which is why we have 30, 000 denominations of Christians today.

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,552
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12/14/2019 10:09:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Again you have nothing to add.

BTW Jesus was totally orthodox.
His views were not spurious and nor were they orthodox.

In fact he was very much the total Jew in all that he did and all he said.

He never committed blasphemy. The Jewish leaders accused him of doing so - but as we all know, Even you, That blasphemy could only stand if Jesus was not who he said he was.

And that is the difference and the reason why Christianity came into being - and thereafter to be the largest religion in the world - and world history.

It is also the reason why it will be the only religion to last into the next. Because its founder is God.
ethang5
Posts: 19,110
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12/14/2019 10:24:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What would you say is a key characteristic of a cult that distinguishes it from the traditional and orthodox church?

For me, In my travels, It has always been consistently a problem with the Jesus of the bible.

Many of the newer cults have modeled their beliefs to mimic Christianity or mask where they contradict it. But without fail, They stumble over the stumbling block and reject the cornerstone.

Jesus asked, "Who do you say I am? " And that is the core question.

Jesus answered it. "Unless you believe I am He, You will die in your sins. "
Willows
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12/14/2019 11:02:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Again you have nothing to add.

BTW Jesus was totally orthodox.
His views were not spurious and nor were they orthodox.

In fact he was very much the total Jew in all that he did and all he said.

He never committed blasphemy. The Jewish leaders accused him of doing so - but as we all know, Even you, That blasphemy could only stand if Jesus was not who he said he was.

And that is the difference and the reason why Christianity came into being - and thereafter to be the largest religion in the world - and world history.

It is also the reason why it will be the only religion to last into the next. Because its founder is God.

Face the fact that you are completely obsessed with Christianity as being the "only real religion".
Which is an arrogant and ignorant slap in the face to every other faith (let alone, Unbiased atheists).
Every other religion claims to be founded by its respective imaginary friend and Christianity is no different except that it has the most unenviable reputation of any religion for its history of gross indecency, Violence and corruption.

And, If Christ did actually exist there is every reason to assume that he was no different from any other charismatic cult leader. He would have been totally corrupt, Self-serving and was responsible for the deaths of many followers.

And just like any cult leader, His deluded followers all wear rose-tinted glasses.
Tradesecret
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12/15/2019 12:19:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Ethang, Totally agree with you.

It certainly is one of the fundamental commonalities of those that are outside of the traditional and orthodox church. Every denomination within the church has a high view of Jesus - and those on the outside, Diminish Jesus. JWs, Don't believe he is God. The Mormons almost see everyone as god. The Scientologists - reject his deity - and the SDAs, Don't believe his death atones for all time.

The church as a whole has billions of believers - the cults are growing of course - just like atheism. This is a rejection of Jesus as King and God.

Still God is good and he will do always bring to pass his good purposes.
WisdomOfAges
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12/15/2019 12:32:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
CULT? Each of the Abrahamic PUPPET GOD inventions is built on a platform of
DECEPTION. . . The JEW-JESUS ALLAH God hoaxes are used as CULT TOOLS. . .

CULTS depend on HYPNOSIS and BRAINWASHING of their VICTIM SLAVE DRONES to serve the VAMPIRE CON ARTIST LYING PREACHER who himself (or herself) plays GOD!

GOD is the perfect scapegoat TOOL. . . . Invent a GOD and then ACT on his behalf to do right by him! What a JOKE. . . . Some retarded parasite preaching CON ARTIST SCUM
plays GOD in the name of his GOD! And billions of idiot dumbed down humans comply!

MERRY CHRISTMAS! No go condemn the MUSLIMS and JEWS for inventing a FALSE GOD!

HEY. . . . Where was this boy wonder GOD fool before MOSES 3, 500 years ago? And why
did it take 1500 years after MOSES to show up. . . . Especially by popping out of some illiterate JEW TRIBE GIRL! How retarded is this story! R E T A R D E D to the MAX!

Then there is ALLAH who arrived 600 years after boy bozo JESUS ran away from the
humans who MURDERED HIM! So FCKG RETARDED! Really. . . Total COMIC BOOK TRASH these 3 Abrahamic GOD inventions are. . . .

All 3 GODS are used for CULT building. . . . For MURDER and DESTRUCTION of the FREE
WILL OPEN MINDED HUMAN. . . The greatest THREAT and ENEMY of RELIGIOUS CON ARTIST SCUM. . .
Tradesecret
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12/15/2019 12:33:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Face the fact that you are completely obsessed with Christianity as being the "only real religion".

Christianity is a world religion - indeed the largest world religion. I am a Christian and I this deeply humbles me. It is a great privilege. It has more than 30, 000 different denominations - all of which serve the ONE GOD - the Lord Jesus.

Which is an arrogant and ignorant slap in the face to every other faith (let alone, Unbiased atheists).

It is not arrogant. That is such a shallow response by you. Every religion - every worldview believes it is correct. If it did not - then it would cease to exist and join another. Atheists think they have it correct.

Every other religion claims to be founded by its respective imaginary friend and Christianity is no different except that it has the most unenviable reputation of any religion for its history of gross indecency, Violence and corruption.

I can't speak for other religions or for atheism. Christianity however was not founded by an imaginary fried - it was established by the same person who created this world we live on. This world is not imaginary and neither is its maker.

As for its reputation - in the scheme of things - Christianity's reputation is very much an excellent one. True there are times and zones where it has let itself down and been corrupted and exuded violence and even gross indecency. But none of this is in isolation and necessarily different from the world it operates in. In other words, The church contains people from the world - and therefore expects that it will at times reflect the way the world works. Yet it also is true that the church has in history been at the forefront of science, Of assisting the poor and the vulnerable, And the homeless. It has promoted education and justice and fairness. It has spawned great works of art and literature and music. To try and reduce the church's reputation to the 20th century Roman Catholic priesthood - which is exceptionally horrific, Is however foolish and also the reflection of shallow minded heads. Without the Church in history - the world would be a far dark place - a place which would still practice slavery, A world which would still be full of disease. A world where science would never have evolved - a world which would not have experienced such wealth and freedom as it has today.

Only a dimwitted idiot would suggest that the Church has not been a great service to this world.
Harikrish
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12/15/2019 1:16:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Again you have nothing to add.

BTW Jesus was totally orthodox.
His views were not spurious and nor were they orthodox.

In fact he was very much the total Jew in all that he did and all he said.

He never committed blasphemy. The Jewish leaders accused him of doing so - but as we all know, Even you, That blasphemy could only stand if Jesus was not who he said he was.

And that is the difference and the reason why Christianity came into being - and thereafter to be the largest religion in the world - and world history.

It is also the reason why it will be the only religion to last into the next. Because its founder is God.

Jesus was not Orthodox.

Scriptures show Jesus broke all the 10 commandments. These ironies exist in the Bible.

The 10 commandments say.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, To keep it holy.
5. Honour your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

Jesus broke many of the commandments, If not all!

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
Jesus tried to claim he was God.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "

2. You shall not make idols.
Jesus made a covenant with a cup.
Luke 22:20 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, Which is poured out for you.

3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Jesus said every word he spoke came from God. Unless God too was as incoherent as Jesus. God in the OT never spoke in parables. His orders were clear and direct.
Luke 18:34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, And they did not comprehend what He was saying.

4. Remember the Sabbath day, To keep it holy.
Jesus broke the sabbath.
Pharisees accused Him of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:10; Mark 3:2, John 9:14-16).

5. Honour your father and your mother.
Jesus tried to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, A daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"

6. You shall not murder.
Jesus murdered the truth.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "
Yet he spent his entire ministry condemning the very people he was sent to save.

7. You shall not commit adultery.
Jesus was unfaithful to God and his disciples. He left them to die even though he was given all authority over heaven and earth.
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

8. You shall not steal.
Jesus stole the words of the prophets before him and claimed they pointed to him.
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.
Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, Explaining from all the Scriptures. . . And Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures, Beginning with the books of Moses and the writings of all the prophets".

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Jesus accused God of betraying and forsaking him on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " which means, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "

10. You shall not covet.
Jesus suffered from a messiah complex and coveted the title messiah/Christ/Anointed one.
John 17:1 After Jesus said this, He looked toward heaven and prayed:
"Father, The hour has come. Glorify your Son, That your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, The only true God, And Jesus Christ, Whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, Glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Scriptures tell us Jesus was tried, Convicted and crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy. . . . By the Romans. But the confusion continues.

Christians have waited for 2000 years for Jesus's return as he had promised without any success.
Preterists claims Christisns got it wrong, That Jesus returned in 70 AD.
Jehovah's Witnesses claim Jesus returned in 1874 or maybe 1914.
Others say Jesus could be the next thief who robs your house.
Revelation 16:15, Matthew 24:43, 1 Thessalonians 5:2, 1 Thessalonians 5:4, 2 Peter 3:10 ESV - ("Behold, I am coming like a thief in the night! )

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
Harikrish
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12/15/2019 1:40:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Face the fact that you are completely obsessed with Christianity as being the "only real religion".

Christianity is a world religion - indeed the largest world religion. I am a Christian and I this deeply humbles me. It is a great privilege. It has more than 30, 000 different denominations - all of which serve the ONE GOD - the Lord Jesus.

Which is an arrogant and ignorant slap in the face to every other faith (let alone, Unbiased atheists).

It is not arrogant. That is such a shallow response by you. Every religion - every worldview believes it is correct. If it did not - then it would cease to exist and join another. Atheists think they have it correct.

Every other religion claims to be founded by its respective imaginary friend and Christianity is no different except that it has the most unenviable reputation of any religion for its history of gross indecency, Violence and corruption.

I can't speak for other religions or for atheism. Christianity however was not founded by an imaginary fried - it was established by the same person who created this world we live on. This world is not imaginary and neither is its maker.

As for its reputation - in the scheme of things - Christianity's reputation is very much an excellent one. True there are times and zones where it has let itself down and been corrupted and exuded violence and even gross indecency. But none of this is in isolation and necessarily different from the world it operates in. In other words, The church contains people from the world - and therefore expects that it will at times reflect the way the world works. Yet it also is true that the church has in history been at the forefront of science, Of assisting the poor and the vulnerable, And the homeless. It has promoted education and justice and fairness. It has spawned great works of art and literature and music. To try and reduce the church's reputation to the 20th century Roman Catholic priesthood - which is exceptionally horrific, Is however foolish and also the reflection of shallow minded heads. Without the Church in history - the world would be a far dark place - a place which would still practice slavery, A world which would still be full of disease. A world where science would never have evolved - a world which would not have experienced such wealth and freedom as it has today.

Only a dimwitted idiot would suggest that the Church has not been a great service to this world.

How about the Catholic Pope who leads a billion Christians declaring Jesus was a failure?
Even the Pope declared the cross was a failure of God.

Pope Francis said during his whirlwind U. S. Tour. "And if at times OUR EFFORTS AND WORKS SEEM TO FAIL AND PRODUCE NO FRUIT, We need to REMEMBER that WE ARE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS. . . And His LIFE, Humanly speaking, ENDED IN FAILURE, THE FAILURE OF THE CROSS. "

When you don"t understand something, When desperation hits you then look at the CROSS. THAT IS THE GREAT FAILURE OF GOD, THAT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF GOD, AND IT'S A CHALLENGE TO OUR FAITH.
Willows
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12/15/2019 2:50:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Face the fact that you are completely obsessed with Christianity as being the "only real religion".

Christianity is a world religion - indeed the largest world religion. I am a Christian and I this deeply humbles me. It is a great privilege. It has more than 30, 000 different denominations - all of which serve the ONE GOD - the Lord Jesus.

Which is an arrogant and ignorant slap in the face to every other faith (let alone, Unbiased atheists).

It is not arrogant. That is such a shallow response by you. Every religion - every worldview believes it is correct. If it did not - then it would cease to exist and join another. Atheists think they have it correct.

Every other religion claims to be founded by its respective imaginary friend and Christianity is no different except that it has the most unenviable reputation of any religion for its history of gross indecency, Violence and corruption.

I can't speak for other religions or for atheism. Christianity however was not founded by an imaginary fried - it was established by the same person who created this world we live on. This world is not imaginary and neither is its maker.

As for its reputation - in the scheme of things - Christianity's reputation is very much an excellent one. True there are times and zones where it has let itself down and been corrupted and exuded violence and even gross indecency. But none of this is in isolation and necessarily different from the world it operates in. In other words, The church contains people from the world - and therefore expects that it will at times reflect the way the world works. Yet it also is true that the church has in history been at the forefront of science, Of assisting the poor and the vulnerable, And the homeless. It has promoted education and justice and fairness. It has spawned great works of art and literature and music. To try and reduce the church's reputation to the 20th century Roman Catholic priesthood - which is exceptionally horrific, Is however foolish and also the reflection of shallow minded heads. Without the Church in history - the world would be a far dark place - a place which would still practice slavery, A world which would still be full of disease. A world where science would never have evolved - a world which would not have experienced such wealth and freedom as it has today.

Only a dimwitted idiot would suggest that the Church has not been a great service to this world.

An even more deluded dimwitted idiot could ever say that the Church has at any time been of any service whatsoever to the world.

The Christian faith, In particular, Has only ever been of service to those who use it to cruelly manipulate others for their own self-interests.
Harikrish
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12/15/2019 3:10:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Willows wrote:
Tradesecret wrote:
Face the fact that you are completely obsessed with Christianity as being the "only real religion".

Christianity is a world religion - indeed the largest world religion. I am a Christian and I this deeply humbles me. It is a great privilege. It has more than 30, 000 different denominations - all of which serve the ONE GOD - the Lord Jesus.

Which is an arrogant and ignorant slap in the face to every other faith (let alone, Unbiased atheists).

It is not arrogant. That is such a shallow response by you. Every religion - every worldview believes it is correct. If it did not - then it would cease to exist and join another. Atheists think they have it correct.

Every other religion claims to be founded by its respective imaginary friend and Christianity is no different except that it has the most unenviable reputation of any religion for its history of gross indecency, Violence and corruption.

I can't speak for other religions or for atheism. Christianity however was not founded by an imaginary fried - it was established by the same person who created this world we live on. This world is not imaginary and neither is its maker.

As for its reputation - in the scheme of things - Christianity's reputation is very much an excellent one. True there are times and zones where it has let itself down and been corrupted and exuded violence and even gross indecency. But none of this is in isolation and necessarily different from the world it operates in. In other words, The church contains people from the world - and therefore expects that it will at times reflect the way the world works. Yet it also is true that the church has in history been at the forefront of science, Of assisting the poor and the vulnerable, And the homeless. It has promoted education and justice and fairness. It has spawned great works of art and literature and music. To try and reduce the church's reputation to the 20th century Roman Catholic priesthood - which is exceptionally horrific, Is however foolish and also the reflection of shallow minded heads. Without the Church in history - the world would be a far dark place - a place which would still practice slavery, A world which would still be full of disease. A world where science would never have evolved - a world which would not have experienced such wealth and freedom as it has today.

Only a dimwitted idiot would suggest that the Church has not been a great service to this world.

Someone should tell Pastor Tradesecret the Christians have not reproduced a single miracle of Jesus since Jesus was crucified 2000 years ago.

An even more deluded dimwitted idiot could ever say that the Church has at any time been of any service whatsoever to the world.

The Christian faith, In particular, Has only ever been of service to those who use it to cruelly manipulate others for their own self-interests.
ethang5
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12/16/2019 1:36:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:

Only a dimwitted idiot would suggest that the Church has not been a great service to this world.

I know people personally who were saved from disease and death by Church funded hospitals, Or saved from a life of illiteracy by church funded schools. People who avoided death by being sheltered in a church compound as gunmen roamed.

It is true that only a dimwitted idiot would suggest that the Church has not been a great service to this world.
ethang5
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12/16/2019 1:36:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:

Only a dimwitted idiot would suggest that the Church has not been a great service to this world.

I know people personally who were saved from disease and death by Church funded hospitals, or saved from a life of illiteracy by church funded schools. People who avoided death by being sheltered in a church compound as gunmen roamed.

It is true that only a dimwitted idiot would suggest that the Church has not been a great service to this world.
ethang5
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12/16/2019 1:37:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:

Only a dimwitted idiot would suggest that the Church has not been a great service to this world.

I know people personally who were saved from disease and death by Church funded hospitals, Or saved from a life of illiteracy by church funded schools. People who avoided death by being sheltered in a church compound as gunmen roamed.

It is true that only a dimwitted, Spamming idiot would suggest that the Church has not been a great service to this world.
Tradesecret
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12/16/2019 2:56:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It is not unexpected that you would provide a dimwitted version of these events from your own perverted and distorted worldview. In fact the next time you read the Bible the way it was meant to be read will be the FIRST. Still this only affirms what I have been saying all along - that the non-spiritual person is unable to understand and interpret the bible properly, Let alone know how to apply it. Or respond to it appropriately.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
Jesus tried to claim he was God.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "


Your argument is flawed. Why? BECAUSE Jesus is GOD. Since Jesus is GOD, He was not making a false claim. The Pharisees were wrong. They were blind to the truth.

2. You shall not make idols.
Jesus made a covenant with a cup.
Luke 22:20 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, Which is poured out for you.


Your argument is flawed. Making a covenant is not making an idol. Nor did Jesus command his disciples to worship the cup or even the feast associated with it. Everyday Christians make new covenants - we call it marriage. Duh!

3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Jesus said every word he spoke came from God. Unless God too was as incoherent as Jesus. God in the OT never spoke in parables. His orders were clear and direct.
Luke 18:34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, And they did not comprehend what He was saying.


Your argument is flawed. Taking the name of the Lord in vain has nothing to do with whether Jesus spoke in parables or not. Totally irrelevant.

4. Remember the Sabbath day, To keep it holy.
Jesus broke the sabbath.
Pharisees accused Him of breaking the Sabbath (Matthew 12:10; Mark 3:2, John 9:14-16).


Your argument is flawed. Just because the Pharisees accused Jesus of something did not mean that the allegations were true. The Pharisees also perverted the truth of God, Including the Sabbath. Jesus demonstrated the foolishness of the Pharisees teaching.

5. Honour your father and your mother.
Jesus tried to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, A daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"


Your argument is flawed. Read the context. Jesus honoured family - which is why he celebrated the marriage at Cana. It is why he taught family as a high point. In this text which you rip out of context - Jesus is not saying we should dishonour parents or family, But that our highest priority ought to be to GOD. And in the context, Jesus is saying that if a father opposes a son turning to Christ, Then this will create tension - and that the son at this point - if faced with the choice of father or God, Should and ought choose God. Similarly with the mother and daughter etc. Learn to read.

6. You shall not murder.
Jesus murdered the truth.
Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "
Yet he spent his entire ministry condemning the very people he was sent to save.


Your argument is weak and flawed. Murdering the truth is not the same as murder. And although Jesus was sent for the lost sheep of Israel - faith reveals that this meant he had grace sufficient for the Gentiles. It all depends upon whether you see his truth as a key to lock out people - or to let people in.

7. You shall not commit adultery.
Jesus was unfaithful to God and his disciples. He left them to die even though he was given all authority over heaven and earth.
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.


Your argument is flawed. Jesus was never unfaithful to GOD or to his disciples. He did not leave them - but sent the Spirit of God to be with them. Dying is something everyone does - so nonsense argument on your part. Authority in heaven and earth is not about mortality.

8. You shall not steal.
Jesus stole the words of the prophets before him and claimed they pointed to him.
Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.
Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, Explaining from all the Scriptures. . . And Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures, Beginning with the books of Moses and the writings of all the prophets".


Your argument is flawed. Using words from the bible is not theft. Applying it to yourself would be incorrect if it were not true. Yet in regards to Jesus it was absolutely true.

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Jesus accused God of betraying and forsaking him on the cross.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " which means, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "


Your argument is flawed. I have discussed this before. You don't understand plain logic - so it is pointless trying AGAIN to explain it to you.

10. You shall not covet.
Jesus suffered from a messiah complex and coveted the title messiah/Christ/Anointed one.
John 17:1 After Jesus said this, He looked toward heaven and prayed:
"Father, The hour has come. Glorify your Son, That your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, The only true God, And Jesus Christ, Whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, Glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.


Your argument is flawed. Jesus never suffered from a messiah complex. As God he actually is much more than a messiah. God ranks higher than messiah. He gave up his deity as it were according to the letter to the Philippians. Hence to say he coveted something less than himself is incorrect.

Overall, Everyone of your arguments is flawed and incorrect- sometimes you even make the mad ravings of Anon look good. Still, At least you are attempting to read the scriptures - who knows? Perhaps God will open your eyes.
Harikrish
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12/16/2019 3:57:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:
It is not unexpected that you would provide a dimwitted version of these events from your own perverted and distorted worldview. In fact the next time you read the Bible the way it was meant to be read will be the FIRST. Still this only affirms what I have been saying all along - that the non-spiritual person is unable to understand and interpret the bible properly, Let alone know how to apply it. Or respond to it appropriately.


1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
Jesus tried to claim he was God.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "


Your argument is flawed. Why? BECAUSE Jesus is GOD. Since Jesus is GOD, He was not making a false claim. The Pharisees were wrong. They were blind to the truth.

Jesus's family said jesus was a madman.

Mark 3:21 when his family heard about this, They went to take charge of him, For they said, "He is out of his mind. "

The people who knew Jesus said he was a demon possessed madman.
John 10:20 Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him? "

If Jesus was God, He would not have tolerated being mocked, Beaten and ridiculed. Scriptures describe God as supreme power and quick to anger.
The might of God was demonstrated in the Bible.
1. God created the world in 6 days
2. Noah's flood
3. The plagues of Egypt
4. Genocide of the Canaanites, Ammonites, Moabites, And. . .

But we know the Jews rejected Jesus and the Romans crucified him. That would be impossible if Jesus was God.
If Jesus was God and passed through earth. Why is the world the same as before, Full of death, Diseases and evil?

The miracles of Jesus did not impress the people of his time.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any good work, " they replied, "but for blasphemy, Because you, A mere man, Claim to be God. "

Jesus was ugly too.
Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, A man of suffering, And familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, And we held him in low esteem.

Jesus never said he was God at his trial. No one would have dared to kill him if he did because both the Jews and Romans were God fearing people. Instead he said God was not of this world.
John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, My servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place. "

Jesus was confused before his death.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, He fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, If it is possible, May this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, But as you will. "

jesus was clueless most of his life.

Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, The disciples came to him privately. "Tell us, " they said, "when will this happen, And what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? "

Matthew 24:36 But about that day and hour no one knows, Not even the angels in heaven, Nor the Son, But only the Father.

On the cross Jesus blamed God for his failures.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " (which means "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me? ").

The scriptures are clear Jesus is a product of divine conception.
Luke 1:35 The angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come to you, And the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore, The holy child developing inside you will be called the Son of God.

But that might not be the only explanation.
Luke 3:23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, So it was thought, Of Joseph, The son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,

The important thing to remember is the people of his time were not impressed with his miracles and rejected him.

John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any good work, " they replied, "but for blasphemy, Because you, A mere man, Claim to be God. "

Jesus said he was sent by God.

Another distinction we have between the Father and the Son is that the Father is the sender and Jesus the Son, Is the one sent.

Jesus said that it was God the Father who sent Him into the world.

"My food, " said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work" (John 4:34).
He emphasized it again

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, And my judgment is just, For I seek not to please myself but him who sent me (John 5:30).
Jesus made it clear the Father had set Him apart and sent Him into the world.

What about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, `I am God's Son'? (John 10:36).
Jesus said that His words came from the Father.

For I did not speak of my own accord, But the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it (John 12:49)
The Apostle Paul also testified that the Father sent the Son into the world:

But when the fulness of the time had come, God sent forth his Son, Born of a woman, Born under the law (Galatians 4:4).

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
Harikrish
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12/16/2019 4:02:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:
It is not unexpected that you would provide a dimwitted version of these events from your own perverted and distorted worldview. In fact the next time you read the Bible the way it was meant to be read will be the FIRST. Still this only affirms what I have been saying all along - that the non-spiritual person is unable to understand and interpret the bible properly, Let alone know how to apply it. Or respond to it appropriately.


2. You shall not make idols.
Jesus made a covenant with a cup.
Luke 22:20 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, Which is poured out for you.


Your argument is flawed. Making a covenant is not making an idol. Nor did Jesus command his disciples to worship the cup or even the feast associated with it. Everyday Christians make new covenants - we call it marriage. Duh!

Jesus said the cup is the new covenant. He put an object before God and told us to idolalized the cup in our daily lives and elaborated how the cup performed the function of worship.
Jesus's covenant advocated alcoholism or drinking with a cup with no mention of temple visit or set prayer.

Jesus realized he was wrong and even prayed to God to take away the cup (his covenant) from which he was drinking
Luke 22:42 "Father, If You are willing, Take this cup from Me. Yet not My will, But Yours be done. "

Paul repeated the cup of the covenant. Paul said everytime you drink raise the cup you drink from in rememberance of Jesus. That is the same thing as worshipping an idol in rememberance of God.

1 Corinthians 11:25 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, As often as you drink it, In remembrance of Me. "

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
Harikrish
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12/16/2019 5:04:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:
It is not unexpected that you would provide a dimwitted version of these events from your own perverted and distorted worldview. In fact the next time you read the Bible the way it was meant to be read will be the FIRST. Still this only affirms what I have been saying all along - that the non-spiritual person is unable to understand and interpret the bible properly, Let alone know how to apply it. Or respond to it appropriately.


3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Jesus said every word he spoke came from God. Unless God too was as incoherent as Jesus. God in the OT never spoke in parables. His orders were clear and direct.
Luke 18:34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, And they did not comprehend what He was saying.


Your argument is flawed. Taking the name of the Lord in vain has nothing to do with whether Jesus spoke in parables or not. Totally irrelevant.

Vain definition: producing no result; useless.

Examples where Jesus used God's name in vain which produced no results.

1. Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "
The Jews were not save. The Romans destroyed their temple and Jerusalem after crucifying their messiah Jesus. Totally useless promise.

2. John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, And I will raise it again in three days. "
The temple still remains in ruins after 2000 years. Totally useless promise.

3. John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
Jesus prayed for the safety of his disciples. But they were all killed like their master Jesus. Totally useless promise.

4. Luke 23:34 Then Jesus said, "Father, Forgive them, For they do not know what they are doing. "

But that is a lie because the people told him why they were stoning him which later ended up in His crucifixion.

John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any good work, " they replied, "but for blasphemy, Because you, A mere man, Claim to be God. "

Luke 23:21 but they kept shouting, "Crucify Him! Crucify Him! " -

The Romans crucified Jesus.

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
Tradesecret
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12/16/2019 9:03:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jesus's family said jesus was a madman.

And they were wrong. Just like you are wrong.

Mark 3:21 when his family heard about this, They went to take charge of him, For they said, "He is out of his mind. "

They thought he was mad because he was healing people?

The people who knew Jesus said he was a demon possessed madman.
John 10:20 Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him? "


His family - did not understand in the first instance - but all of them eventually agreed with him. Two of his brothers wrote books for the NT. Both of them dying as martyrs.

If Jesus was God, He would not have tolerated being mocked, Beaten and ridiculed. Scriptures describe God as supreme power and quick to anger.
The might of God was demonstrated in the Bible.
1. God created the world in 6 days
2. Noah's flood
3. The plagues of Egypt
4. Genocide of the Canaanites, Ammonites, Moabites, And. . .


How little you know about the Biblical God. God is slow to anger. Quick to show mercy. The Biblical God is heads and shoulders above any of the puny Hindu gods. They have to show their deity by power and might and force. The biblical God - and Jesus came humbly, As servants, As those who demonstrate real love. I reject your gods - puny and weak because they act and respond like the school house bully. The God of the bible responds and acts like the one who made the world - and the one who loves what he made.

But we know the Jews rejected Jesus and the Romans crucified him. That would be impossible if Jesus was God.
If Jesus was God and passed through earth. Why is the world the same as before, Full of death, Diseases and evil?


It is only impossible for those who think God acts like human bullies. The God of the bible was rejected even as you reject him now. This is not impossible - it is called sin. You Harikrish are a sinner - in need of repentance and forgiveness. Bullish gods don't forgive and don't care - they only know how to punish and to hate.

And the world is not the same as it was pre- Jesus. The world has changed in so many different ways. Light has come into the world. People are living longer, People are healthier, Wealthier, Stronger, More intelligent, More curious - and more redeemed. Comparing the world today with the world that Jesus entered in is a picture of how much things have changed. Only a fool would consider otherwise.

The miracles of Jesus did not impress the people of his time.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any good work, " they replied, "but for blasphemy, Because you, A mere man, Claim to be God.
"

Why are you always quoting people who were opposed to Jesus? There are many examples in the NT of where people were impressed with Jesus' work. Consider Mark 1:22. 28; Mark 1: 29-34; Mark 1 :40-45; Mark 2: 1-12; Mark 3:1-6; Mark 3: 7-12; and this is hardly scratching the surface.

Jesus was ugly too.
Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, A man of suffering, And familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, And we held him in low esteem.


So you admit Isaiah 53 is about Jesus? So why was Jesus prophecied about if he was not the messiah. You are such an idiot.

Jesus never said he was God at his trial. No one would have dared to kill him if he did because both the Jews and Romans were God fearing people. Instead he said God was not of this world.
John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, My servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place. "


Of course he said he was God. Pilate did not want to kill him. Yet he could see in Jesus' eyes - that the biblical God was full of mercy and love. And he was thinking only of his short term problems - not the longer term ones.

Jesus was confused before his death.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, He fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, If it is possible, May this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, But as you will. "


How is this confused? He is responding like any human - he did not want to die. He knows what he will do - which is why he says - "yet not as I will, But as you will". I think these are the words of a very sane and rational man. Not to forget loyal and faithful, Brave and honourable.

jesus was clueless most of his life.

Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, The disciples came to him privately. "Tell us, " they said, "when will this happen, And what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? "

Matthew 24:36 But about that day and hour no one knows, Not even the angels in heaven, Nor the Son, But only the Father.


LOL, These verses do not on balance demonstrate he was clueless for his life - let alone for a few minutes. When he was 12 he was amazing the Jewish leaders in the temple. When he started his ministry - he amazed those listening because he taught not like the Pharisees - but with authority. His verbal fights with the Pharisees were astounding, Not once being defeated -but demonstrating true wisdom.

Jesus was fully God and fully man. In his time on earth as man, He devested himself as it were of his deity - including omniscience. Yet he remained omniscient as the Son of God - GOD.

On the cross Jesus blamed God for his failures.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " (which means "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me? ").


Jesus did not fail. He succeeded in his ministry and his mission - and his church is the testimony of this success today. He had no reason to blame anyone for anything. Again you repeat your misconceptions about Psalm 22. It is boring. And it does not means a thing to me - except you are not logical enough to follow an argument.

The scriptures are clear Jesus is a product of divine conception.
Luke 1:35 The angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come to you, And the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore, The holy child developing inside you will be called the Son of God.


I don't like your translation. But it is certainly true that Jesus was born of Mary and that his father was the Holy Spirit.

But that might not be the only explanation.
Luke 3:23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, So it was thought, Of Joseph, The son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,


Yes, So it was thought. In other words, People see what they want to see. People saw his step- father and put two and two together. Yet they were wrong - it is only what they thought. A bit like you really.
Tradesecret
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12/16/2019 9:15:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Gee, You speak nonsense. You do realise that taking one word out of context and applying to other passages just makes you look like an idiot. You are obviously desperate which is why you do it - but surely even you are not so dumb.

Jesus said the cup is the new covenant. He put an object before God and told us to idolalized the cup in our daily lives and elaborated how the cup performed the function of worship.

No. That is incorrect. Please give a verse where he says - "worship that cup". You won't find one - because it is not there. You are lying again. The cup Jesus refers to represented the covenant he was making with his people. It was not an object of worship. It was not an idol.

Jesus's covenant advocated alcoholism or drinking with a cup with no mention of temple visit or set prayer.

You really are grasping at straws. Jesus did not advocate alcoholism. This cup had nothing to do with visiting temple or saying prayers. It was an establishing a new tradition - one which takes the old Passover and transforms it into something delightfully wonderful. No longer would his people need to live in sin - but be transformed into new creatures - to serve and to love him.

Jesus realized he was wrong and even prayed to God to take away the cup (his covenant) from which he was drinking
Luke 22:42 "Father, If You are willing, Take this cup from Me. Yet not My will, But Yours be done. "


what nonsense. You are putting two things together which are not related. The cup he refers to at the last supper is not the cup he is talking about when he was praying to God. One is symbolic of God's relationship with his people. The other is representing his task - to die for humanity. Adding "his covenant" is a distortion and is made up on your part. It is more evidence you lie and deceive. It is more evidence of how desperate you are.

Paul repeated the cup of the covenant. Paul said everytime you drink raise the cup you drink from in rememberance of Jesus. That is the same thing as worshipping an idol in rememberance of God.

Nope. Drinking the cup - in the Lord's supper remembers and reminds those participating that Jesus died and rose from the dead. It is not worshiping the cup - but the one the cup symbolises - Jesus, Who is God. And since it was instituted by God himself - it is totally appropriate to worship God like this.

1 Corinthians 11:25 In the same way, After supper He took the cup, Saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, As often as you drink it, In remembrance of Me. "

AMEN!
Harikrish
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12/16/2019 11:50:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Harikrish wrote: Jesus's family said jesus was a madman.

TS wrote: And they were wrong. Just like you are wrong.

How can they be wrong when Jesus proved he lost his mind and couldn't even recognize his mother and brothers when he was told his mother and brothers were outside looking for him?

Mark 3:31 Then Jesus" mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, They sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him, And they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you. "
33 "Who are my mother and my brothers? " he asked.

Mark 3:21 when his family heard about this, They went to take charge of him, For they said, "He is out of his mind. "


Harikrish wrote: The people who knew Jesus said he was a demon possessed madman.
John 10:20 Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him? "


TS wrote: They thought he was mad because he was healing people?
They realized Jesus was a madman because he was claiming to be God. They were not fooled by his magic tricks as scriptures show.

John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any good work, " they replied, "but for blasphemy, Because you, A mere man, Claim to be God. "

TS wrote: His family - did not understand in the first instance - but all of them eventually agreed with him. Two of his brothers wrote books for the NT. Both of them dying as martyrs.

So his family was right Jesus was indeed a madman. Even his own brothers had to die because they followed Jesus a madman. Jesus could not save them.

Jesus's own family called Jesus a madman.

Mark 3:21 When His family heard about this, They went out to take custody of Him, Saying, "He is out of His mind. "

The people who knew Jesus said he was demon possessed.
John 10:20 Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and insane. Why would you listen to Him?

Jesus asked his disciples to eat him. They walked away in disgust hearing Jesus teach cannibalism.

John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, And I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
John 6:60 On hearing it, Many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it? "

John 6:66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

When Joseph told Jesus he was not his father that Jesus was an illegitimate bastard. Jesus from that day sought to destroy the traditional family.

Matthew 10:34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, But a sword. 35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"
36 a man"s enemies will be the members of his own household. "[c]

Jesus wanted everyone to leave their family and follow him to his crucifixion or be unworthy of him. Scriptures tell us no one took up a cross to follow Jesus. They watched his crucifixion from a safe distance.

Matthew 10:37 "Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, And whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

Jesus was tried, Convicted and crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy.
Matthew 26:But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled. " Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

On the cross Jesus proved once again he was a demon possessed madman. He blamed God for his failures.

Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " which means, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
Harikrish
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12/17/2019 12:20:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:

How little you know about the Biblical God. God is slow to anger. Quick to show mercy. The Biblical God is heads and shoulders above any of the puny Hindu gods. They have to show their deity by power and might and force. The biblical God - and Jesus came humbly, As servants, As those who demonstrate real love. I reject your gods - puny and weak because they act and respond like the school house bully. The God of the bible responds and acts like the one who made the world - and the one who loves what he made.

Read your bible Pastor Tradesecret.
Scriptural verses that show God is a genocidal lunatic.

Genesis 6:7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created--and with them the animals, The birds and the creatures that move along the ground--for I regret that I have made them.

Isaiah 24:1 Lord is going to completely destroy everything on earth.

2 Peter 3:10 The day of the Lord will come as a robber comes. The heavens will pass away with a loud noise. The sun and moon and stars will burn up. The earth and all that is in it will be burned up.

1. God drowns the whole earth.
In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, Women, Children, Fetuses, And perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, Gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.

2. God kills half a million people.
In 2 Chronicles 13:15-18, God helps the men of Judah kill 500, 000 of their fellow Israelites.

3. God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn.
In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.

4. God kills 14, 000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them.
In Numbers 16:41-49, The Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14, 000 more of them.

5. Genocide after genocide after genocide.
In Joshua 6:20-21, God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, Killing "men and women, Young and old, Cattle, Sheep and donkeys. " In Deuteronomy 2:32-35, God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, Including children. In Deuteronomy 3:3-7, God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. In Numbers 31:7-18, The Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, Whom they take as spoils of war. In 1 Samuel 15:1-9, God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites " men, Women, Children, Infants, And their cattle " for something the Amalekites" ancestors had done 400 years earlier.

6. God kills 50k people for curiosity.
In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50k men for peeking into the ark of the covenant. (Newer cosmetic translations count only 70 deaths, But their text notes admit that the best and earliest manuscripts put the number at 50, 070. )

7. 3k Israelites killed for inventing a god.
In Exodus 32, Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments. The Israelites are bored, So they invent a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him: "Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, Each killing his brother and friend and neighbor. " About 3, 000 people died.

8. The Amorites destroyed by sword and by God"s rocks.
In Joshua 10:10-11, God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, Then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.

9. God burns two cities to death.
In Genesis 19:24, God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire from the sky. Then God kills Lot"s wife for looking back at her burning home.

10. God has 42 children mauled by bears.
In 2 Kings 2:23-24, Some kids tease the prophet Elisha, And God sends bears to dismember them. Newer cosmetic translations say the bears "maul" the children, But the original Hebrew, Baqa, Means "to tear apart. "

11. A tribe slaughtered and their virgins raped for not showing up at roll call.
In Judges 21:1-23, A tribe of Israelites misses roll call, So the other Israelites kill them all except for the virgins, Which they take for themselves. Still not happy, They hide in vineyards and pounce on dancing women from Shiloh to take them for themselves.

12. 3k crushed to death.
In Judges 16:27-30, God gives Samson strength to bring down a building to crush 3k members of a rival tribe.

13. A concubine raped and dismembered.
In Judges 19:22-29, A mob demands to rape a godly master"s guest. The master offers his daughter and a concubine to them instead. They take the concubine and gang-rape her all night. The master finds her on his doorstep in the morning, Cuts her into 12 pieces, And ships the pieces around the country.

14. Child sacrifice.
In Judges 11:30-39, Jephthah burns his daughter alive as a sacrificial offering for God"s favor in killing the Ammonites.

15. God helps Samson kill 30 men because he lost a bet.
In Judges 14:11-19, Samson loses a bet for 30 sets of clothes. The spirit of God comes upon him and he kills 30 men to steal their clothes and pay off the debt.

16. God demands you kill your wife and children for worshiping other gods.
In Deuteronomy 13:6-10, God commands that you must kill your wife, Children, Brother, And friend if they worship other gods.

17. God incinerates 51 men to make a point.
In 2 Kings 1:9-10, Elijah gets God to burn 51 men with fire from heaven to prove he is God.

18. God kills a man for not impregnating his brother"s widow.
In Genesis 38:9-10, God kills a man for refusing to impregnate his brother"s widow.

19. God threatens forced cannibalism.
In Leviticus 26:27-29 and Jeremiah 19:9, God threatens to punish the Israelites by making them eat their own children.

20. The coming slaughter.
According to Revelation 9:7-19, God"s got more evil coming. God will make horse-like locusts with human heads and scorpion tails, Who torture people for 5 months. Then some angels will kill a third of the earth"s population. If he came today, That would be 2 billion people.
Harikrish
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12/17/2019 2:20:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:

But we know the Jews rejected Jesus and the Romans crucified him. That would be impossible if Jesus was God.
If Jesus was God and passed through earth. Why is the world the same as before, Full of death, Diseases and evil?


It is only impossible for those who think God acts like human bullies. The God of the bible was rejected even as you reject him now. This is not impossible - it is called sin. You Harikrish are a sinner - in need of repentance and forgiveness. Bullish gods don't forgive and don't care - they only know how to punish and to hate.

Sin kills humans. Human sin cannot kill God. But Jesus was crucified for his own sins.
Luke 23:21 but they kept shouting, "Crucify Him! Crucify Him! "

John 19:23 When the soldiers had crucified Jesus, They divided His garments into four parts, One for each soldier,

And the world is not the same as it was pre- Jesus. The world has changed in so many different ways. Light has come into the world. People are living longer, People are healthier, Wealthier, Stronger, More intelligent, More curious - and more redeemed. Comparing the world today with the world that Jesus entered in is a picture of how much things have changed. Only a fool would consider otherwise.

Adam lived to 930 years. Noah 950 years. Moses 120 years. Jesus 33 years. Read your bible pastor Tradesecret.

The miracles of Jesus did not impress the people of his time.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any good work, " they replied, "but for blasphemy, Because you, A mere man, Claim to be God.
"

Why are you always quoting people who were opposed to Jesus? There are many examples in the NT of where people were impressed with Jesus' work. Consider Mark 1:22. 28; Mark 1: 29-34; Mark 1 :40-45; Mark 2: 1-12; Mark 3:1-6; Mark 3: 7-12; and this is hardly scratching the surface.

I am quoting factual events in the bible written by eyewitnesses that raise doubts about Jesus's ministry and how the people of his time received him. They serve as historical accounts and data points to help us arrive at a conclusion. Jesus's life culminated in his trial, Conviction and crucifixion.

Jesus was ugly too.
Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, A man of suffering, And familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, And we held him in low esteem.


So you admit Isaiah 53 is about Jesus? So why was Jesus prophecied about if he was not the messiah. You are such an idiot.

Isaiah promised Ahaz God would give him a sign. But we know Ahaz never found the virgin mother or her son named Emmanuel. Prophecy fail. But Christians use Isaiah 53 to describe the appearance of Jesus. We should take it Jesus was very ugly and despised.

Jesus never said he was God at his trial. No one would have dared to kill him if he did because both the Jews and Romans were God fearing people. Instead he said God was not of this world.
John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, My servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place. "


Of course he said he was God. Pilate did not want to kill him. Yet he could see in Jesus' eyes - that the biblical God was full of mercy and love. And he was thinking only of his short term problems - not the longer term ones.

Pilate did not say Jesus was God nor did Jesus say to Pilate he was God. Jesus said he was from an alien kingdom.
It was Pilate who handed Jesus to the soldiers to be crucified.
Luke 19:16 Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified. So the soldiers took charge of Jesus.

Jesus was confused before his death.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, He fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, If it is possible, May this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, But as you will. "


How is this confused? He is responding like any human - he did not want to die. He knows what he will do - which is why he says - "yet not as I will, But as you will". I think these are the words of a very sane and rational man. Not to forget loyal and faithful, Brave and honourable.

Jesus was so drunk he stumbled and fell.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, He fell facedown and prayed, "My Father, If it is possible, Let this cup pass from Me. Yet not as I will, But as You will. "

jesus was clueless most of his life.

Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, The disciples came to him privately. "Tell us, " they said, "when will this happen, And what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? "

Matthew 24:36 But about that day and hour no one knows, Not even the angels in heaven, Nor the Son, But only the Father.


LOL, These verses do not on balance demonstrate he was clueless for his life - let alone for a few minutes. When he was 12 he was amazing the Jewish leaders in the temple. When he started his ministry - he amazed those listening because he taught not like the Pharisees - but with authority. His verbal fights with the Pharisees were astounding, Not once being defeated -but demonstrating true wisdom.

Jesus was clueless. He thought John the Baptist was Elijah even though John denied he was Elijah.
John 1:21 "Then who are you? " they inquired. "Are you Elijah? " He said, "I am not. " "Are you the Prophet? " He answered, "No. "

Jesus was fully God and fully man. In his time on earth as man, He devested himself as it were of his deity - including omniscience. Yet he remained omniscient as the Son of God - GOD.

Jesus said he is a housekeeper in heaven preparing rooms for guests in his father's house.
John 14:2 In My Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, Would I have told you that I am going away to prepare a place for you?

On the cross Jesus blamed God for his failures.
Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, Lema sabachthani? " (which means "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me? ").


Jesus did not fail. He succeeded in his ministry and his mission - and his church is the testimony of this success today. He had no reason to blame anyone for anything. Again you repeat your misconceptions about Psalm 22. It is boring. And it does not means a thing to me - except you are not logical enough to follow an argument.

Jesus said he would return to fetch his followers. That promise was made 2000 years ago.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

The scriptures are clear Jesus is a product of divine conception.
Luke 1:35 The angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come to you, And the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore, The holy child developing inside you will be called the Son of God.


I don't like your translation. But it is certainly true that Jesus was born of Mary and that his father was the Holy Spirit.

But that might not be the only explanation.
Luke 3:23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, So it was thought, Of Joseph, The son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,


Yes, So it was thought. In other words, People see what they want to see. People saw his step- father and put two and two together. Yet they were wrong - it is only what they thought. A bit like you really.

So Luke 3:23 tells us Jesus was an illegitimate Jewish bastard.
Matthew 1 tells us Joseph was going to divorce Mary because she was pregnant with child before they were married.
Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.

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