Total Posts:40|Showing Posts:31-40|Last Page
Jump to topic:

What is a cult?

Harikrish
Posts: 29,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/17/2019 2:37:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
markzboyce wrote:
Trump followers

Most people don't think Trump has an ideology. He is very transactional. So like Turmp or hate him there isn't anything cultish to follow.

Do you have a better answer?
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,552
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/17/2019 7:33:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
How can they be wrong when Jesus proved he lost his mind and couldn't even recognize his mother and brothers when he was told his mother and brothers were outside looking for him?

You are clutching at straws. Anyone who reads the NT knows that the narrative is precisely the opposite of Jesus being a madman. The author is not saying he is mad - but rather than his family could not understand why he was doing what he was doing.

TS wrote: They thought he was mad because he was healing people?

They realized Jesus was a madman because he was claiming to be God. They were not fooled by his magic tricks as scriptures show.

No that is just madness you are making up. No one reading the story looks at that way. You are clutching because you have nothing to work with.

TS wrote: His family - did not understand in the first instance - but all of them eventually agreed with him. Two of his brothers wrote books for the NT. Both of them dying as martyrs.

So his family was right Jesus was indeed a madman. Even his own brothers had to die because they followed Jesus a madman. Jesus could not save them.

No on the contrary - they were clearly wrong - and they changed their views - your narrative is nonsensical in the context of the entire Gospel and NT.

Jesus asked his disciples to eat him. They walked away in disgust hearing Jesus teach cannibalism.

It is true that many walked away - was it disgust? Possibly. Like you they did not understand metaphorical and symbolic meaning. Like you - they were primitive in their thinking and understanding. Yet Jesus clearly is talking in the metaphorical.

When Joseph told Jesus he was not his father that Jesus was an illegitimate bastard. Jesus from that day sought to destroy the traditional family.


Another lie? Where in the NT did Joseph ever tell Jesus he was not his son? Jesus was not illegitimate. He is the legitimate son of God. You apply human standards to God? No wonder Hinduism is a lost cause. They are altogether to weak and humanlike.

Matthew 10:34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, But a sword. 35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"
36 a man"s enemies will be the members of his own household. "[c]


I already commented on this. You did not even attempt to refute it.

Jesus wanted everyone to leave their family and follow him to his crucifixion or be unworthy of him. Scriptures tell us no one took up a cross to follow Jesus. They watched his crucifixion from a safe distance.

Again you tell lies. Again this is to be expected from a non-spiritual person. You are not spiritual because you do not have the Spirit of God.

Jesus was tried, Convicted and crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy.
Matthew 26:But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled. " Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.


The Jews had Jesus killed because he claimed to be and proved he was God.

On the cross Jesus proved once again he was a demon possessed madman. He blamed God for his failures.

The Cross is the ultimate proof of his success.
Harikrish
Posts: 29,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/17/2019 5:26:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:

How can they be wrong when Jesus proved he lost his mind and couldn't even recognize his mother and brothers when he was told his mother and brothers were outside looking for him?

You are clutching at straws. Anyone who reads the NT knows that the narrative is precisely the opposite of Jesus being a madman. The author is not saying he is mad - but rather than his family could not understand why he was doing what he was doing.

His family came to fetch him for his safety because the people were saying he was a demon possessed madman. The crow even prevented Jesus from eating.

Mark 3:20Then Jesus entered a house, And again a crowd gathered, So that he and his disciples were not even able to eat.
Mark 3:21 When His family heard about this, They went out to take custody of Him, Saying, "He is out of His mind. "

TS wrote: They thought he was mad because he was healing people?

They realized Jesus was a madman because he was claiming to be God. They were not fooled by his magic tricks as sciriptures show.

No that is just madness you are making up. No one reading the story looks at that way. You are clutching because you have nothing to work with.

It's in the scriptures. Jesus used the same defence that he was healing people.
John 10:31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me? "

But it was not his good works but blasphemy that drew the crows.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "

Blasphemy was punishable by death.
Deuteronomy 18:20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, Or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, Is to be put to death. "

TS wrote: His family - did not understand in the first instance - but all of them eventually agreed with him. Two of his brothers wrote books for the NT. Both of them dying as martyrs.

So his family was right Jesus was indeed a madman. Even his own brothers had to die because they followed Jesus a madman. Jesus could not save them.

No on the contrary - they were clearly wrong - and they changed their views - your narrative is nonsensical in the context of the entire Gospel and NT.
You just said they were put to death. They thought they were following God only to realize they were following a demon possessed madman.

Even John the Baptist who baptized Jesus began to doubt Jesus was the promised one.
Luke 7:19 So John called two of his disciples and sent them to ask the Lord, "Are You the One who was to come, Or should we look for someone else? "

Scriptural evidence Jesus was a demon possessed madman
Jesus asked his disciples to eat him. They walked away in disgust hearing Jesus teach cannibalism.

It is true that many walked away - was it disgust? Possibly. Like you they did not understand metaphorical and symbolic meaning. Like you - they were primitive in their thinking and understanding. Yet Jesus clearly is talking in the metaphorical.

Cannibalism real or metaphorical was ungodly.
But Jesus said they had to eat him because his flesh and blood were real.
John 6: 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, And I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

When Joseph told Jesus he was not his father that Jesus was an illegitimate bastard. Jesus from that day sought to destroy the traditional family.


Another lie? Where in the NT did Joseph ever tell Jesus he was not his son? Jesus was not illegitimate. He is the legitimate son of God. You apply human standards to God? No wonder Hinduism is a lost cause. They are altogether to weak and humanlike.

Jesus was aware that he was an illegitimate bastard. It's in the scripture. Read it.
He never called Joseph his father throughout his life. He even claimed to Joseph and Mary they were not his parents.

Luke 2:48 When his parents saw him, They were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, Why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you. "
49 "Why were you searching for me? " he asked. "Didn"t you know I had to be in my Father"s house? "

Jesus denied he had a mother and brothers in another incident.

Matthew 12:46"While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, His mother and brothers stood outside, Wanting to speak to him. 47"Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, Wanting to speak to you. "
Matthew 12:48 But Jesus replied, "Who is My mother, And who are My brothers? "

Matthew 10:34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, But a sword. 35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"
36 a man"s enemies will be the members of his own household. "


I already commented on this. You did not even attempt to refute it.

The scriptures refute your ignorance.
Jesus wanted everyone to leave their family and follow him to his crucifixion or be unworthy of him. Scriptures tell us no one took up a cross to follow Jesus. They watched his crucifixion from a safe distance.

Again you tell lies. Again this is to be expected from a non-spiritual person. You are not spiritual because you do not have the Spirit of God.

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, Wife and children, Brothers and sisters--yes, Even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.

Jesus was tried, Convicted and crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy.
Matthew 26:But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled. " Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.


The Jews had Jesus killed because he claimed to be and proved he was God.

Jesus claimed he was given all authority over Heaven and earth. But that was a lie. Jesus stood idly by as the Romans after crucifying Jesus then went on to destroy the temple and Jerusalem and displaced judaism the religion that followed with the Roman Catholic Church and destroyed the Jews the very people Jesus was sent to save.
Neither the Jews nor the Romans believe Jesus was God. Jesus was tried, Convicted and crucified.

On the cross Jesus proved once again he was a demon possessed madman. He blamed God for his failures.

The Cross is the ultimate proof of his success.

Even the Pope declared the cross was the great failure of God.

Pope Francis said during his whirlwind U. S. Tour. "And if at times OUR EFFORTS AND WORKS SEEM TO FAIL AND PRODUCE NO FRUIT, We need to REMEMBER that WE ARE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS. . . And His LIFE, Humanly speaking, ENDED IN FAILURE, THE FAILURE OF THE CROSS. "

When you don"t understand something, When desperation hits you then look at the CROSS. THAT IS THE GREAT FAILURE OF GOD, THAT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF GOD, AND IT'S A CHALLENGE TO OUR FAITH.

Jesus lamented he was forsaken by God.
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "

Jesus quoted Daniel who prophesized Jesus would be killed. Jesus quoted Psalm 22 which prophesized Jesus would be forsaken by God. Both were fulfilled.

Daniel 9:26 After the sixty-two 'sevens, ' the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,552
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/20/2019 3:45:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
His family came to fetch him for his safety because the people were saying he was a demon possessed madman. The crow even prevented Jesus from eating.

Mark 3:20Then Jesus entered a house, And again a crowd gathered, So that he and his disciples were not even able to eat.
Mark 3:21 When His family heard about this, They went out to take custody of Him, Saying, "He is out of His mind. "


None of that actually means he was out of his mind. The context shows the complete opposite. His family were wrong at that time.

It's in the scriptures. Jesus used the same defence that he was healing people.
John 10:31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me? "


No it is not in the bible. You are making it up. That verse one tells us that Jesus says he is doing good works and that the people did not have a reason to stone him.

But it was not his good works but blasphemy that drew the crows.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "


Nonsense. His miracles and teaching drew the crowds - along with John the Baptist's notice of him. He was mocking the so called Pharisees.

Blasphemy was punishable by death.
Deuteronomy 18:20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, Or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, Is to be put to death. "


Agreed - under Jewish law blasphemy was punishable by death. However it was not under Roman law. The biggest problem here for you however is that you keep saying Jesus never said he was God. I say he did say this - but you keep changing your mind. The Pharisees agree with me that Jesus clearly confessed he was GOD. That is why they thought he blasphemed. Yet I say it was not blasphemy because his claim is TRUE.

TS wrote: His family - did not understand in the first instance - but all of them eventually agreed with him. Two of his brothers wrote books for the NT. Both of them dying as martyrs.

So his family was right Jesus was indeed a madman. Even his own brothers had to die because they followed Jesus a madman. Jesus could not save them.

LOL! Jesus was not a madman. His family were wrong in the first instance and them came to realise Jesus was GOD. This is why they were prepared to die for him - they knew the truth - and they also knew the truth was true in life and in the after life. They understood the difference between temporal and eternity. Too bad you don't seem to understand the difference.

No on the contrary - they were clearly wrong - and they changed their views - your narrative is nonsensical in the context of the entire Gospel and NT.

You just said they were put to death. They thought they were following God only to realize they were following a demon possessed madman.

LOL - again you speak nonsense. They originally thought he was mad - and then came to realise the truth. He was and is God.

Even John the Baptist who baptized Jesus began to doubt Jesus was the promised one.
Luke 7:19 So John called two of his disciples and sent them to ask the Lord, "Are You the One who was to come, Or should we look for someone else? "


J the B like the majority of people at the time of Jesus was expecting the messiah to conquer the Romans. They could not conceive that the messiah would bring about freedom through death and resurrection. Like you, The people at that time read only half of the prophecies - the ones that spoke of God's wrath and justice and ruling with an iron rod. They missed the part about the messiah being the suffering servant who would bring peace through it. They rather applied themselves as the victim which is a typical sinful response. This is why Jesus pointed J the B back to the bible - to the prophecies about the messiah - healing the sick, Casting out demons etc, Because this revealed the true messiah. John heard this and was satisfied. He died knowing he had announced the SON of GOD the messiah to the world.

Cannibalism real or metaphorical was ungodly.
But Jesus said they had to eat him because his flesh and blood were real.
John 6: 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, And I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.


That is your opinion. I don't think it is ungodly to provide metaphorical images of people taking Jesus into their very being. You think it is ungodly because all you can see is cannibalism - when it is fact nothing of the sort.

Jesus was aware that he was an illegitimate bastard. It's in the scripture. Read it.
He never called Joseph his father throughout his life. He even claimed to Joseph and Mary they were not his parents.


Actually, Jesus had no issue with being the Son of David which reveals your lie. Jesus knew whom his real father was - your problem is you mix up human fathers with a divine father. Illegitimacy cannot apply to a divine son. Illegitimacy has to do with human marriages - not with divine ones.

Jesus denied he had a mother and brothers in another incident.

Matthew 12:46"While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, His mother and brothers stood outside, Wanting to speak to him. 47"Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, Wanting to speak to you. "
Matthew 12:48 But Jesus replied, "Who is My mother, And who are My brothers? "

In the context Jesus was demonstrating the difference between spiritual family and blood family. All he does here is prove he is not RIGHT WING like you.

I already commented on this. You did not even attempt to refute it.

The scriptures refute your ignorance.
Jesus wanted everyone to leave their family and follow him to his crucifixion or be unworthy of him. Scriptures tell us no one took up a cross to follow Jesus. They watched his crucifixion from a safe distance.


Lies upon lies. Come on - prove Jesus said he wanted everyone to leave their families - you can't because it is not in the bible.
Willows
Posts: 11,684
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/20/2019 9:16:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:

Lies upon lies.

A bit rich coming from someone who habitually lies on this forum and makes completely baseless and filthy accusations about others.
Harikrish
Posts: 29,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/20/2019 3:55:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:

His family came to fetch him for his safety because the people were saying he was a demon possessed madman. The crow even prevented Jesus from eating.

Mark 3:20Then Jesus entered a house, And again a crowd gathered, So that he and his disciples were not even able to eat.
Mark 3:21 When His family heard about this, They went out to take custody of Him, Saying, "He is out of His mind. "


None of that actually means he was out of his mind. The context shows the complete opposite. His family were wrong at that time.

It's in the scriptures. Jesus used the same defence that he was healing people.
John 10:31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me? "


No it is not in the bible. You are making it up. That verse one tells us that Jesus says he is doing good works and that the people did not have a reason to stone him.

But it was not his good works but blasphemy that drew the crows.
John 10:33 "We are not stoning You for any good work, " said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, Because You, Who are a man, Declare Yourself to be God. "


Nonsense. His miracles and teaching drew the crowds - along with John the Baptist's notice of him. He was mocking the so called Pharisees.

When the crows confronted Jesus over his claims about his father being God he slipped away and hid from them. If jesus was God he would have faced them. Which proves he never claimed or established he was God to the people.

John 8:59 At this, They picked up stones to stone him, But Jesus hid himself, Slipping away from the temple grounds.
John 10:39 Again they tried to seize him, But he escaped their grasp.

Jesus said he was sent by God.

Another distinction we have between the Father and the Son is that the Father is the sender and Jesus the Son, Is the one sent.

Jesus said that it was God the Father who sent Him into the world.

"My food, " said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work" (John 4:34).
He emphasized it again

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, And my judgment is just, For I seek not to please myself but him who sent me (John 5:30).
Jesus made it clear the Father had set Him apart and sent Him into the world.

What about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, `I am God's Son'? (John 10:36).
Jesus said that His words came from the Father.

For I did not speak of my own accord, But the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it (John 12:49)
The Apostle Paul also testified that the Father sent the Son into the world:

But when the fulness of the time had come, God sent forth his Son, Born of a woman, Born under the law (Galatians 4:4).

This proves Jesus was delusional too. Because Luke tells us who Jesus's father was.
Luke 3:23Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, So it was thought, Of Joseph, The son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,

Blasphemy was punishable by death.
Deuteronomy 18:20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, Or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, Is to be put to death. "


Agreed - under Jewish law blasphemy was punishable by death. However it was not under Roman law. The biggest problem here for you however is that you keep saying Jesus never said he was God. I say he did say this - but you keep changing your mind. The Pharisees agree with me that Jesus clearly confessed he was GOD. That is why they thought he blasphemed. Yet I say it was not blasphemy because his claim is TRUE.

Jesus never said "I am God. " When pushed Jesus said he was born before Abraham.
Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth " before Abraham was born, I am! " John 5:58.
But Adam too was born before Abraham. So was Noah.
Jesus even said. John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
So Jesus claims we are all Gods.
The separation between God and Jesus comes when Jesus snapped out of his delusion and blamed God for his failures.

Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "

TS wrote: His family - did not understand in the first instance - but all of them eventually agreed with him. Two of his brothers wrote books for the NT. Both of them dying as martyrs.

So his family was right Jesus was indeed a madman. Even his own brothers had to die because they followed Jesus a madman. Jesus could not save them.

LOL! Jesus was not a madman. His family were wrong in the first instance and them came to realise Jesus was GOD. This is why they were prepared to die for him - they knew the truth - and they also knew the truth was true in life and in the after life. They understood the difference between temporal and eternity. Too bad you don't seem to understand the difference.

Even Jesus prayed to God for the safety of his disciples. Jesus was powerless and clueless all his life.
John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
But his disciples were killed. Jesus couldn't save himself or his disciples.

No on the contrary - they were clearly wrong - and they changed their views - your narrative is nonsensical in the context of the entire Gospel and NT.

Peter lied 3 times about Jesus. Judas betrayed Jesus. No one took up a cross to follow Jesus to his crucifixion. They even argued among themselves who among them would be greatest everytime Jesus said he going to be put to death. Their time with Jesus never changed their evil nature.

Luke 9:46 Then an argument started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest. -
Luke 22 :24 A dispute also arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest.

You just said they were put to death. They thought they were following God only to realize they were following a demon possessed madman.

LOL - again you speak nonsense. They originally thought he was mad - and then came to realise the truth. He was and is God.
What truth?
Peter lied 3 times about Jesus. Judas betrayed Jesus. The Jews rejected Jesus. The Romans crucified Jesus.
Even the Pope declare Jesus a failure and the cross the great failure of God.

Even John the Baptist who baptized Jesus began to doubt Jesus was the promised one.
Luke 7:19 So John called two of his disciples and sent them to ask the Lord, "Are You the One who was to come, Or should we look for someone else? "


Even the Pope declared the cross was a failure of God.

Pope Francis said during his whirlwind U. S. Tour. "And if at times OUR EFFORTS AND WORKS SEEM TO FAIL AND PRODUCE NO FRUIT, We need to REMEMBER that WE ARE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS. . . And His LIFE, Humanly speaking, ENDED IN FAILURE, THE FAILURE OF THE CROSS. "

When you don"t understand something, When desperation hits you then look at the CROSS. THAT IS THE GREAT FAILURE OF GOD, THAT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF GOD, AND IT'S A CHALLENGE TO OUR FAITH.

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.

Continued. . .
Harikrish
Posts: 29,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/20/2019 4:49:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Continued from previous post.

Even John the Baptist who baptized Jesus began to doubt Jesus was the promised one.
Luke 7:19 So John called two of his disciples and sent them to ask the Lord, "Are You the One who was to come, Or should we look for someone else? "


J the B like the majority of people at the time of Jesus was expecting the messiah to conquer the Romans. They could not conceive that the messiah would bring about freedom through death and resurrection. Like you, The people at that time read only half of the prophecies - the ones that spoke of God's wrath and justice and ruling with an iron rod. They missed the part about the messiah being the suffering servant who would bring peace through it. They rather applied themselves as the victim which is a typical sinful response. This is why Jesus pointed J the B back to the bible - to the prophecies about the messiah - healing the sick, Casting out demons etc, Because this revealed the true messiah. John heard this and was satisfied. He died knowing he had announced the SON of GOD the messiah to the world.

The Old Testament is very clear about what the Messiah was supposed to accomplish as promised by God.

Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. Isaiah 2:1-4, Isa 32:15-18, Isa 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, Zec 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34

Specifically, The Bible says he will:

Build the Third Temple Ezekiel 37:26-28.
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel Isaiah 43:5-6.
Usher in an era of world peace, And end all hatred, Oppression, Suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall man learn war anymore. " Isaiah 2:4
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, Which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world " on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" Zechariah 14:9
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, Then he cannot be the Messiah.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, Including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

Cannibalism real or metaphorical was ungodly.
But Jesus said they had to eat him because his flesh and blood were real.
John 6: 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, And I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.


That is your opinion. I don't think it is ungodly to provide metaphorical images of people taking Jesus into their very being. You think it is ungodly because all you can see is cannibalism - when it is fact nothing of the sort.

Jesus emphasized his flesh and blood were real not metaphorical. Read your bible pastor Tradesecret.
John 6:55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

Jesus was aware that he was an illegitimate bastard. It's in the scripture. Read it.
He never called Joseph his father throughout his life. He even claimed to Joseph and Mary they were not his parents.


Actually, Jesus had no issue with being the Son of David which reveals your lie. Jesus knew whom his real father was - your problem is you mix up human fathers with a divine father. Illegitimacy cannot apply to a divine son. Illegitimacy has to do with human marriages - not with divine ones.

Jesus denied he had a mother and brothers in another incident.

Matthew 12:46"While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, His mother and brothers stood outside, Wanting to speak to him. 47"Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, Wanting to speak to you. "
Matthew 12:48 But Jesus replied, "Who is My mother, And who are My brothers? "

In the context Jesus was demonstrating the difference between spiritual family and blood family. All he does here is prove he is not RIGHT WING like you.

His family was outside waiting to fetch him. He denied them.

He wanted everyone to deny their biological fathers.

Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth your father, For you have one Father, Who is in heaven.

Jesus was a demon possessed madman which was reflected in his behaviour.

Fifth commandment.
5. Honour your father and your mother.
Jesus tried to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, A daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"

Your argument is flawed. Read the context. Jesus honoured family - which is why he celebrated the marriage at Cana. It is why he taught family as a high point. In this text which you rip out of context - Jesus is not saying we should dishonour parents or family, But that our highest priority ought to be to GOD. And in the context, Jesus is saying that if a father opposes a son turning to Christ, Then this will create tension - and that the son at this point - if faced with the choice of father or God, Should and ought choose God. Similarly with the mother and daughter etc. Learn to read.

I already commented on this. You did not even attempt to refute it.

You are scripturally ignorant pastor Tradesecret and your arguments are baseless and contrary to scriptures.
It is a commandment from God to honour your parents. By honouring them you are honouring God.
Jesus is violating that commanding and declared he came to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, A daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"

Jesus even wanted us to deny our biological fathers which shows his deep resentment for the traditional family.
Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth your father, For you have one Father, Who is in heaven.

The scriptures refute your ignorance.
Jesus wanted everyone to leave their family and follow him to his crucifixion or be unworthy of him. Scriptures tell us no one took up a cross to follow Jesus. They watched his crucifixion from a safe distance.


Lies upon lies. Come on - prove Jesus said he wanted everyone to leave their families - you can't because it is not in the bible.

Jesus wanted everyone to leave their family and follow him to his crucifixion or be unworthy of him. Scriptures tell us no one took up a cross to follow Jesus. They watched his crucifixion from a safe distance.

Matthew 10:37 "Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, And whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

Jesus was tried, Convicted and crucified for his blasphemous lies and lunacy.
Matthew 26:But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled. " Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

On the cross Jesus proved once again he was a demon possessed madman. He blamed God for his failures.

Matthew 27:46 Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me? "

Anyone following our exchanges can easily see you are scripturally ignorant and remember more about your search for sex deviant experience and slave to sin than your pastoral commitments.

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.
Tradesecret
Posts: 1,552
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/20/2019 10:24:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jesus said he was sent by God.

Another distinction we have between the Father and the Son is that the Father is the sender and Jesus the Son, Is the one sent.

Jesus said that it was God the Father who sent Him into the world.

"My food, " said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work" (John 4:34).
He emphasized it again

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, And my judgment is just, For I seek not to please myself but him who sent me (John 5:30).
Jesus made it clear the Father had set Him apart and sent Him into the world.

What about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, `I am God's Son'? (John 10:36).
Jesus said that His words came from the Father.

For I did not speak of my own accord, But the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it (John 12:49)
The Apostle Paul also testified that the Father sent the Son into the world:

But when the fulness of the time had come, God sent forth his Son, Born of a woman, Born under the law (Galatians 4:4).


LOL! - none of your arguments are valid because the Christian God - is the Trinity. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Hence we teach that the Father sent the Son. You repeating it does not refute that Jesus was God - it simply affirms that God is Trinity.

Jesus never said "I am God. " When pushed Jesus said he was born before Abraham.
Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth " before Abraham was born, I am! " John 5:58.
But Adam too was born before Abraham. So was Noah.
Jesus even said. John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
So Jesus claims we are all Gods.
The separation between God and Jesus comes when Jesus snapped out of his delusion and blamed God for his failures.


Your ignorance is letting you down AGAIN! . Jesus did call himself God. Read John 5:58.
To make it easy, You are quoting it. He is saying I AM GOD. I AM is the name of GOD. It is clearly what he is doing - and it is what the Pharisees believe he is saying. That is why they accuse him of blasphemy. True, Both Adam and Noah were before Abraham, But if Jesus was simply a mad blasphemer, What is his point? If he is not declaring himself God, Then what is he saying? Your problem is that there is not another reasonable hypothesis which is why the Pharisees attempted to stone him.

The Old Testament is very clear about what the Messiah was supposed to accomplish as promised by God.

Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. Isaiah 2:1-4, Isa 32:15-18, Isa 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, Zec 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34

Specifically, The Bible says he will:

Build the Third Temple Ezekiel 37:26-28.
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel Isaiah 43:5-6.
Usher in an era of world peace, And end all hatred, Oppression, Suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall man learn war anymore. " Isaiah 2:4
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, Which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world " on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" Zechariah 14:9
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, Then he cannot be the Messiah.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, Including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.


Christians talk about the now and the not yet. We talk of being sanctified, Being made sanctified and will be made sanctified. We are saved, We are being saved, And we will be saved. We talk of Christ making the church perfect, The church being made perfect, And the church will one day be perfect. As a Hindu you have no conception of these things - but one day you will.

Christians talk about heaven breaking through into the present. Which it does, And which it more and more does and will until the day of the LORD. We talk of the Day of the Lord as not just one day but an entire period of time.

We say Jesus has already built the third temple. This being the church where Jesus reigns. We talk of the Jews being gathered together into the church. We talk of "real peace" between GOD and man through Jesus the messiah which is an end to hostility, And hatred, And oppression, And suffering. In Christ we are made whole today. We have eternal peace with God today. We do not have hatred today. Etc etc.

But overall from the time the Lord returned to heaven and until the time he returns to earth - heaven will break more and more into our earth. Jesus is not returning until every one of his enemies are defeated in accordance with Psalm 2 and Psalm 110. And as more and more people become Christians under the rule of King Jesus - more and more the peace between man and man will become realistic - and oppression will more and more cease - and then when death is defeated physically - for Jesus has already defeated spiritual death, Physically, And covenantally, Then he will return to collect his bride, The church. O what a glorious day. Even so Come Lord Jesus. Amen!
Harikrish
Posts: 29,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/21/2019 6:19:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Tradesecret wrote:
Jesus said he was sent by God.

Another distinction we have between the Father and the Son is that the Father is the sender and Jesus the Son, Is the one sent.

Jesus said that it was God the Father who sent Him into the world.

"My food, " said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work" (John 4:34).
He emphasized it again

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, And my judgment is just, For I seek not to please myself but him who sent me (John 5:30).
Jesus made it clear the Father had set Him apart and sent Him into the world.

What about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, `I am God's Son'? (John 10:36).
Jesus said that His words came from the Father.

For I did not speak of my own accord, But the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it (John 12:49)
The Apostle Paul also testified that the Father sent the Son into the world:

But when the fulness of the time had come, God sent forth his Son, Born of a woman, Born under the law (Galatians 4:4).


TS wrote: LOL! - none of your arguments are valid because the Christian God - is the Trinity. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Hence we teach that the Father sent the Son. You repeating it does not refute that Jesus was God - it simply affirms that God is Trinity.

The word Trinity is not found found in the Bible. Jesus said he was sent by God. Jesus is the mediator between God and men.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, And one mediator also between God and men, The man Christ Jesus,

Jesus never said "I am God. " When pushed Jesus said he was born before Abraham.
Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth " before Abraham was born, I am! " John 5:58.
But Adam too was born before Abraham. So was Noah.
Jesus even said. John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
So Jesus claims we are all Gods.
The separation between God and Jesus comes when Jesus snapped out of his delusion and blamed God for his failures.

TS wrote: Your ignorance is letting you down AGAIN! . Jesus did call himself God. Read John 5:58.
There is no John 5:58. John 5 ends at verse 45. And you call yourself a Pastor. Lol!

To make it easy, You are quoting it. He is saying I AM GOD. I AM is the name of GOD. It is clearly what he is doing - and it is what the Pharisees believe he is saying. That is why they accuse him of blasphemy. True, Both Adam and Noah were before Abraham, But if Jesus was simply a mad blasphemer, What is his point? If he is not declaring himself God, Then what is he saying? Your problem is that there is not another reasonable hypothesis which is why the Pharisees attempted to stone him.

If Jesus was God why was he afraid of those testing him with stoning. Why did he run and hide. Very ungodly behaviour. But he couldn't run from the Romans. They crucified him.

The Old Testament is very clear about what the Messiah was supposed to accomplish as promised by God.

Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. Isaiah 2:1-4, Isa 32:15-18, Isa 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, Zec 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34

Specifically, The Bible says he will:

Build the Third Temple Ezekiel 37:26-28.
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel Isaiah 43:5-6.
Usher in an era of world peace, And end all hatred, Oppression, Suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall man learn war anymore. " Isaiah 2:4
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, Which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world " on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" Zechariah 14:9
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, Then he cannot be the Messiah.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, Including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

TS wrote: Christians talk about the now and the not yet. We talk of being sanctified, Being made sanctified and will be made sanctified. We are saved, We are being saved, And we will be saved. We talk of Christ making the church perfect, The church being made perfect, And the church will one day be perfect. As a Hindu you have no conception of these things - but one day you will.

The Pope who is the leader of a billion Christians declared Jesus a failure and the cross the great failure of God.

Christians talk about heaven breaking through into the present. Which it does, And which it more and more does and will until the day of the LORD. We talk of the Day of the Lord as not just one day but an entire period of time.

Every generation of Christians have repeated the same promise by Jesus for the last 2000 years. It took the Jews and Romans less than 3 years to expose jesus as a liar and lunatic.
Even Paul said the faithful are still in their graves having received not the promise.

Even the gifts of the Holy Spirit ended after the apostles died. We don't see miracles of healing, Speaking in tongues, Gift of knowledge.
The sign gifts ceased at the end of the Book of Acts. There is no record in Scripture of any of the sign gifts operating in any of the letters that Paul wrote after the end of the Acts period, And it is clear that the gift of healing had ceased since Paul could no longer heal even his closest co-workers after the close of the Book of Acts

We say Jesus has already built the third temple. This being the church where Jesus reigns. We talk of the Jews being gathered together into the church. We talk of "real peace" between GOD and man through Jesus the messiah which is an end to hostility, And hatred, And oppression, And suffering. In Christ we are made whole today. We have eternal peace with God today. We do not have hatred today. Etc etc.

You don't have the gifts of the Holy Spirit either. Christianity is a cult of hollow promises.

But overall from the time the Lord returned to heaven and until the time he returns to earth - heaven will break more and more into our earth. Jesus is not returning until every one of his enemies are defeated in accordance with Psalm 2 and Psalm 110. And as more and more people become Christians under the rule of King Jesus - more and more the peace between man and man will become realistic - and oppression will more and more cease - and then when death is defeated physically - for Jesus has already defeated spiritual death, Physically, And covenantally, Then he will return to collect his bride, The church. O what a glorious day. Even so Come Lord Jesus. Amen!

Meanwhile Jesus lives in his father's house and works as a housekeeper preparing rooms for guests

John 14:2 In My Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, Would I have told you that I am going away to prepare a place for you?

Harikrish biblical scholar and spiritual leader.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.