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Does the bible make sense?

MadCornishBiker
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4/5/2017 1:21:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2017 4:11:12 AM, Keltron wrote:
Is there any justification to continue the use of the bible when it does not even meet the educational requirements of a fourth grader. In fact many of the stories of sexual immorality, genocide in the bible are damaging to young minds.

The Bible has a lot of political value to certain factions. Of course everyone just cherry picks whatever works for their ideology and ignores the rest. I don't think that most Christians have even read the Bible- at least not all the way through from front to back. It is actually not that hard of a read, and has some pretty interesting stories like how Abraham made his fortune by pimping out his wife.

not everyone does.

Jehovah's Witnesses take the whole of the Bible as their guide, using numerous translations to work out what each bit actually means as accurately as is humanly possible.
It impossible to make a horse drink which is not thirsty, or eat if it is not hungry.

Likewise it is impossible to teach a person who does not wish to learn. Matthew 13:15.
Harikrish
Posts: 29,658
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4/5/2017 1:49:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2017 1:21:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/5/2017 4:11:12 AM, Keltron wrote:
Is there any justification to continue the use of the bible when it does not even meet the educational requirements of a fourth grader. In fact many of the stories of sexual immorality, genocide in the bible are damaging to young minds.

The Bible has a lot of political value to certain factions. Of course everyone just cherry picks whatever works for their ideology and ignores the rest. I don't think that most Christians have even read the Bible- at least not all the way through from front to back. It is actually not that hard of a read, and has some pretty interesting stories like how Abraham made his fortune by pimping out his wife.

not everyone does.

Jehovah's Witnesses take the whole of the Bible as their guide, using numerous translations to work out what each bit actually means as accurately as is humanly possible.

By publishing and using numerous translations the Jehovah's Witnesses support many conflicting doctrines found in the various bibles they have given their seal of approval.

This is a problem for the JW because they have to accept the differences in the other Bibles they publish and distribute with their seal of approval .

"Now this places the JWs in a predicament since they cannot object to our use of the AV, especially when it contradicts the way the NWT renders a particular verse. After all, to argue that the AV is less than accurate, or not completely reliable, basically means that the Society knowingly used and printed a version that they knew was grossly misleading in the way it rendered specific texts. In fact, due to the "faulty" nature of the AV many people have come to embrace doctrines such as the Trinity, the two natures of Christ (i.e., the Hypostatic Union), the physical, bodily resurrection, ascension and return of Christ, the divine Personhood of the Holy Spirit, salvation by grace through faith alone etc. Therefore, how can the Society be trusted when it willfully published and distributed such a "perversion" of the Holy Bible? "

So not only are they contradicting their doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that they disagree with. But they are also promoting contradictory doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that promote those doctrines.

Now how is a school dropout like McClown expected to deal with these esoteric issues that are fundamental to scriptural integrity.
Harikrish
Posts: 29,658
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4/5/2017 1:56:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2017 4:11:12 AM, Keltron wrote:
Is there any justification to continue the use of the bible when it does not even meet the educational requirements of a fourth grader. In fact many of the stories of sexual immorality, genocide in the bible are damaging to young minds.

The Bible has a lot of political value to certain factions. Of course everyone just cherry picks whatever works for their ideology and ignores the rest. I don't think that most Christians have even read the Bible- at least not all the way through from front to back. It is actually not that hard of a read, and has some pretty interesting stories like how Abraham made his fortune by pimping out his wife.

Abraham even got all the Jews to circumcise their penis so Sarah could refuse Jews by checking for circumcision. Thus maintaining favour with their Jewish God of the Bible. Hitler was not so kind. He used circumcision to separate the Jews from Christians,
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 25,917
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4/5/2017 10:45:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2017 1:49:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/5/2017 1:21:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/5/2017 4:11:12 AM, Keltron wrote:
Is there any justification to continue the use of the bible when it does not even meet the educational requirements of a fourth grader. In fact many of the stories of sexual immorality, genocide in the bible are damaging to young minds.

The Bible has a lot of political value to certain factions. Of course everyone just cherry picks whatever works for their ideology and ignores the rest. I don't think that most Christians have even read the Bible- at least not all the way through from front to back. It is actually not that hard of a read, and has some pretty interesting stories like how Abraham made his fortune by pimping out his wife.

not everyone does.

Jehovah's Witnesses take the whole of the Bible as their guide, using numerous translations to work out what each bit actually means as accurately as is humanly possible.

By publishing and using numerous translations the Jehovah's Witnesses support many conflicting doctrines found in the various bibles they have given their seal of approval.


This is a problem for the JW because they have to accept the differences in the other Bibles they publish and distribute with their seal of approval .

"Now this places the JWs in a predicament since they cannot object to our use of the AV, especially when it contradicts the way the NWT renders a particular verse. After all, to argue that the AV is less than accurate, or not completely reliable, basically means that the Society knowingly used and printed a version that they knew was grossly misleading in the way it rendered specific texts. In fact, due to the "faulty" nature of the AV many people have come to embrace doctrines such as the Trinity, the two natures of Christ (i.e., the Hypostatic Union), the physical, bodily resurrection, ascension and return of Christ, the divine Personhood of the Holy Spirit, salvation by grace through faith alone etc. Therefore, how can the Society be trusted when it willfully published and distributed such a "perversion" of the Holy Bible? "

So not only are they contradicting their doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that they disagree with. But they are also promoting contradictory doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that promote those doctrines.

Now how is a school dropout like McClown expected to deal with these esoteric issues that are fundamental to scriptural integrity.

Holy spirit.

That is why Jehovah chooses such as I, we accept that we need his help and ask for it. James 1:5-8.

Red and think about 1 Corinthians 1:26-30.

There is nothing esoteric about scripture, it is pure logic, the purest logic there is.

That is why an arrogant fool like you can handle it. As 1 Corinthians 1:26-30 points out, Jehovah isn't interested in people like you, who think they are far more clever than they truly are.

All being High School dropout really means is that I got out of Satan's education system earlier than most.
It impossible to make a horse drink which is not thirsty, or eat if it is not hungry.

Likewise it is impossible to teach a person who does not wish to learn. Matthew 13:15.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 25,917
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4/5/2017 10:49:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2017 1:49:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/5/2017 1:21:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/5/2017 4:11:12 AM, Keltron wrote:
Is there any justification to continue the use of the bible when it does not even meet the educational requirements of a fourth grader. In fact many of the stories of sexual immorality, genocide in the bible are damaging to young minds.

The Bible has a lot of political value to certain factions. Of course everyone just cherry picks whatever works for their ideology and ignores the rest. I don't think that most Christians have even read the Bible- at least not all the way through from front to back. It is actually not that hard of a read, and has some pretty interesting stories like how Abraham made his fortune by pimping out his wife.

not everyone does.

Jehovah's Witnesses take the whole of the Bible as their guide, using numerous translations to work out what each bit actually means as accurately as is humanly possible.

By publishing and using numerous translations the Jehovah's Witnesses support many conflicting doctrines found in the various bibles they have given their seal of approval.


This is a problem for the JW because they have to accept the differences in the other Bibles they publish and distribute with their seal of approval .

That is no problem for JWs.

They use, and encourage their followers to use as many different translations as they wish.


"Now this places the JWs in a predicament since they cannot object to our use of the AV, especially when it contradicts the way the NWT renders a particular verse. After all, to argue that the AV is less than accurate, or not completely reliable, basically means that the Society knowingly used and printed a version that they knew was grossly misleading in the way it rendered specific texts. In fact, due to the "faulty" nature of the AV many people have come to embrace doctrines such as the Trinity, the two natures of Christ (i.e., the Hypostatic Union), the physical, bodily resurrection, ascension and return of Christ, the divine Personhood of the Holy Spirit, salvation by grace through faith alone etc. Therefore, how can the Society be trusted when it willfully published and distributed such a "perversion" of the Holy Bible? "

They would never wish to object to anyone using any translation of scriptures.


So not only are they contradicting their doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that they disagree with. But they are also promoting contradictory doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that promote those doctrines.

They do not disagree with any translation, only with the way some use them.

There is no 100% accurate translation, They even accept that their own is not perfect, that is why they are continually working to improve its accuracy.

You rally do love telling lies don't you.


Now how is a school dropout like McClown expected to deal with these esoteric issues that are fundamental to scriptural integrity.
It impossible to make a horse drink which is not thirsty, or eat if it is not hungry.

Likewise it is impossible to teach a person who does not wish to learn. Matthew 13:15.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 25,917
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4/5/2017 10:50:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2017 1:49:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/5/2017 1:21:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/5/2017 4:11:12 AM, Keltron wrote:
Is there any justification to continue the use of the bible when it does not even meet the educational requirements of a fourth grader. In fact many of the stories of sexual immorality, genocide in the bible are damaging to young minds.

The Bible has a lot of political value to certain factions. Of course everyone just cherry picks whatever works for their ideology and ignores the rest. I don't think that most Christians have even read the Bible- at least not all the way through from front to back. It is actually not that hard of a read, and has some pretty interesting stories like how Abraham made his fortune by pimping out his wife.

not everyone does.

Jehovah's Witnesses take the whole of the Bible as their guide, using numerous translations to work out what each bit actually means as accurately as is humanly possible.

By publishing and using numerous translations the Jehovah's Witnesses support many conflicting doctrines found in the various bibles they have given their seal of approval.


This is a problem for the JW because they have to accept the differences in the other Bibles they publish and distribute with their seal of approval .

That is no problem for JWs.

They use, and encourage their followers to use as many different translations as they wish.


"Now this places the JWs in a predicament since they cannot object to our use of the AV, especially when it contradicts the way the NWT renders a particular verse. After all, to argue that the AV is less than accurate, or not completely reliable, basically means that the Society knowingly used and printed a version that they knew was grossly misleading in the way it rendered specific texts. In fact, due to the "faulty" nature of the AV many people have come to embrace doctrines such as the Trinity, the two natures of Christ (i.e., the Hypostatic Union), the physical, bodily resurrection, ascension and return of Christ, the divine Personhood of the Holy Spirit, salvation by grace through faith alone etc. Therefore, how can the Society be trusted when it willfully published and distributed such a "perversion" of the Holy Bible? "

They would never wish to object to anyone using any translation of scriptures.


So not only are they contradicting their doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that they disagree with. But they are also promoting contradictory doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that promote those doctrines.

They do not disagree with any translation, only with the way some use them.

There is no 100% accurate translation, They even accept that their own is not perfect, that is why they are continually working to improve its accuracy.

You really do love telling lies don't you.


Now how is a school dropout like McClown expected to deal with these esoteric issues that are fundamental to scriptural integrity.
It impossible to make a horse drink which is not thirsty, or eat if it is not hungry.

Likewise it is impossible to teach a person who does not wish to learn. Matthew 13:15.
annanicole
Posts: 22,363
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4/5/2017 11:43:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2017 10:50:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/5/2017 1:49:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/5/2017 1:21:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/5/2017 4:11:12 AM, Keltron wrote:
Is there any justification to continue the use of the bible when it does not even meet the educational requirements of a fourth grader. In fact many of the stories of sexual immorality, genocide in the bible are damaging to young minds.

The Bible has a lot of political value to certain factions. Of course everyone just cherry picks whatever works for their ideology and ignores the rest. I don't think that most Christians have even read the Bible- at least not all the way through from front to back. It is actually not that hard of a read, and has some pretty interesting stories like how Abraham made his fortune by pimping out his wife.

not everyone does.

Jehovah's Witnesses take the whole of the Bible as their guide, using numerous translations to work out what each bit actually means as accurately as is humanly possible.

By publishing and using numerous translations the Jehovah's Witnesses support many conflicting doctrines found in the various bibles they have given their seal of approval.


This is a problem for the JW because they have to accept the differences in the other Bibles they publish and distribute with their seal of approval .

That is no problem for JWs.

They use, and encourage their followers to use as many different translations as they wish.

No, they don't - not in my experience. They rely heavily, almost exclusively, on the New World Translation.


"Now this places the JWs in a predicament since they cannot object to our use of the AV, especially when it contradicts the way the NWT renders a particular verse. After all, to argue that the AV is less than accurate, or not completely reliable, basically means that the Society knowingly used and printed a version that they knew was grossly misleading in the way it rendered specific texts. In fact, due to the "faulty" nature of the AV many people have come to embrace doctrines such as the Trinity, the two natures of Christ (i.e., the Hypostatic Union), the physical, bodily resurrection, ascension and return of Christ, the divine Personhood of the Holy Spirit, salvation by grace through faith alone etc. Therefore, how can the Society be trusted when it willfully published and distributed such a "perversion" of the Holy Bible? "

They would never wish to object to anyone using any translation of scriptures.


So not only are they contradicting their doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that they disagree with. But they are also promoting contradictory doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that promote those doctrines.

They do not disagree with any translation, only with the way some use them.

Yeah, they do. They vehemently disagree with the translation of John 1: 1 in practically all standard translations. They "disagree" with it.

You really do love telling lies don't you.

Apparently we much prefer listening to them. After all, we read your posts. How you could say, "They (the JW's) do not disagree with any translation" with a straight face is beyond me. Why you've been on here hundreds of times bemoaning "dishonest trinitarian translators". Why? One reason: you disagree with the translations they produced.
Harikrish
Posts: 29,658
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4/6/2017 1:22:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2017 10:45:39 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/5/2017 1:49:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/5/2017 1:21:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/5/2017 4:11:12 AM, Keltron wrote:
Is there any justification to continue the use of the bible when it does not even meet the educational requirements of a fourth grader. In fact many of the stories of sexual immorality, genocide in the bible are damaging to young minds.

The Bible has a lot of political value to certain factions. Of course everyone just cherry picks whatever works for their ideology and ignores the rest. I don't think that most Christians have even read the Bible- at least not all the way through from front to back. It is actually not that hard of a read, and has some pretty interesting stories like how Abraham made his fortune by pimping out his wife.

not everyone does.

Jehovah's Witnesses take the whole of the Bible as their guide, using numerous translations to work out what each bit actually means as accurately as is humanly possible.

By publishing and using numerous translations the Jehovah's Witnesses support many conflicting doctrines found in the various bibles they have given their seal of approval.


This is a problem for the JW because they have to accept the differences in the other Bibles they publish and distribute with their seal of approval .

"Now this places the JWs in a predicament since they cannot object to our use of the AV, especially when it contradicts the way the NWT renders a particular verse. After all, to argue that the AV is less than accurate, or not completely reliable, basically means that the Society knowingly used and printed a version that they knew was grossly misleading in the way it rendered specific texts. In fact, due to the "faulty" nature of the AV many people have come to embrace doctrines such as the Trinity, the two natures of Christ (i.e., the Hypostatic Union), the physical, bodily resurrection, ascension and return of Christ, the divine Personhood of the Holy Spirit, salvation by grace through faith alone etc. Therefore, how can the Society be trusted when it willfully published and distributed such a "perversion" of the Holy Bible? "

So not only are they contradicting their doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that they disagree with. But they are also promoting contradictory doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that promote those doctrines.

Now how is a school dropout like McClown expected to deal with these esoteric issues that are fundamental to scriptural integrity.

Holy spirit.

That is why Jehovah chooses such as I, we accept that we need his help and ask for it. James 1:5-8.

Red and think about 1 Corinthians 1:26-30.

There is nothing esoteric about scripture, it is pure logic, the purest logic there is.

That is why an arrogant fool like you can handle it. As 1 Corinthians 1:26-30 points out, Jehovah isn't interested in people like you, who think they are far more clever than they truly are.

All being High School dropout really means is that I got out of Satan's education system earlier than most.

You got baptized in 1984. Explain to us how you managed to fail in all those things listed below after you accepted Jehovah and the Holy Spirit.

1. You failed in your marriages that led to 4 divorces.
2. You failed as a father of 3 children by abandoning them and leaving them to the state to support.
3. You failed in your business and went bankrupt.
4. You were homeless several times by your on admission.
5. You got disfellowshipped and shunned by the Jehovah's earthly organization.
6. You started having sexually immoral relationship with an unwed Filipino mother with children. She dumped you for another man
7. You said your physical, mental and financial health is failing. You lost all your teeth and in deep financial debt.

You posted recently you live under a heavy burden.

You wrote:" I am a lifetime depressive and have fought the problem throughout my life. It has cost me numerous jobs, 4 marriages, including two to the same woman, the mother of my children and worst and most painful of all, the love of and contact with my three sons. The last one threatens daily to push me back into the pit of despair every day of the last 20+ years since I last had contact with any of them, and is far too high a price to pay simply for being ill and supported in my illness."

How did you end up in such a miserable and pathetic state when you have been asking Jehovah for help since 1984.

You wrote: "That is why Jehovah chooses such as I, we accept that we need his help and ask for it. James 1:5-8."

Lacking a good education is why you failed in your business and went bankrupt and ended your career as a window cleaner.

You wrote:"All being High School dropout really means is that I got out of Satan's education system earlier than most."

Is that why you abandoned your 3 children and left them to the state to support?

You said you have been studying the bible for 60 years. Despite that you have been going downhill most of your life.

You wrote:" There is nothing esoteric about scripture, it is pure logic, the purest logic there is."

If scriptures are helpful and based on pure logic, why have you failed to apply it in your life? You have failed in every aspect of your life from eduction to marriage to being a father to your 3 children whom you abandoned , to failing your church and all those that depended on you.

What do you hope to achieve by preaching to people who are better human beings than you can ever hope to be?

Scriptures that apply to you.

Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

1 Timothy 3:5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?)

You are very sick. You need help from Jesus. You are too sick and weak to offer help to the healthy and according to Jesus you don't have too.

Mark 2:17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Why cannot you be happy looking at pictures of Diana Oayatnab and the beautiful places she is enjoying with her daughter? Why do you have to remind people you are a cripple stuck in your room spending all your time attacking the beliefs of others who are more blessed than you because your time has passed and you squandered away your life and is forced to live alone at 68.
Harikrish
Posts: 29,658
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4/6/2017 1:48:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2017 10:49:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/5/2017 1:49:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/5/2017 1:21:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/5/2017 4:11:12 AM, Keltron wrote:
Is there any justification to continue the use of the bible when it does not even meet the educational requirements of a fourth grader. In fact many of the stories of sexual immorality, genocide in the bible are damaging to young minds.

The Bible has a lot of political value to certain factions. Of course everyone just cherry picks whatever works for their ideology and ignores the rest. I don't think that most Christians have even read the Bible- at least not all the way through from front to back. It is actually not that hard of a read, and has some pretty interesting stories like how Abraham made his fortune by pimping out his wife.

not everyone does.

Jehovah's Witnesses take the whole of the Bible as their guide, using numerous translations to work out what each bit actually means as accurately as is humanly possible.

By publishing and using numerous translations the Jehovah's Witnesses support many conflicting doctrines found in the various bibles they have given their seal of approval.


This is a problem for the JW because they have to accept the differences in the other Bibles they publish and distribute with their seal of approval .

That is no problem for JWs.

It is a problem for Jehovah. That is why they are claiming all other translation are false. But they are stuck with those bible translation because the publish some of them.

They use, and encourage their followers to use as many different translations as they wish.

If they approve of other translations then why do they attack other faiths for following their bible translations?


"Now this places the JWs in a predicament since they cannot object to our use of the AV, especially when it contradicts the way the NWT renders a particular verse. After all, to argue that the AV is less than accurate, or not completely reliable, basically means that the Society knowingly used and printed a version that they knew was grossly misleading in the way it rendered specific texts. In fact, due to the "faulty" nature of the AV many people have come to embrace doctrines such as the Trinity, the two natures of Christ (i.e., the Hypostatic Union), the physical, bodily resurrection, ascension and return of Christ, the divine Personhood of the Holy Spirit, salvation by grace through faith alone etc. Therefore, how can the Society be trusted when it willfully published and distributed such a "perversion" of the Holy Bible? "

They would never wish to object to anyone using any translation of scriptures.

Most translations of John 1:1 say the Word was God. That is one of the biggest contentions the JW have with other translations because that makes Jesus God.


So not only are they contradicting their doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that they disagree with. But they are also promoting contradictory doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that promote those doctrines.

They do not disagree with any translation, only with the way some use them.

If the translation is different. Their interpretation will also be different. John 1:1 the Word was God. Jesus was therefore God. How many other ways can that verse be used?

There is no 100% accurate translation, They even accept that their own is not perfect, that is why they are continually working to improve its accuracy.

So now you agree all translations are wrong. Other times you claim scriptures cannot be wrong because they are inspired by God. You mental illness is showing.

You rally do love telling lies don't you.

You have lied all your life. That is why you are in the mess you are in. Failed husband of 4 divorces, failed father of 3 children whom you abandoned to the state to support, failed your church, failed in business and failed as a human being.

Now how is a school dropout like McClown expected to deal with these esoteric issues that are fundamental to scriptural integrity.
Harikrish
Posts: 29,658
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4/6/2017 2:10:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2017 11:43:44 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/5/2017 10:50:15 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/5/2017 1:49:08 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 4/5/2017 1:21:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/5/2017 4:11:12 AM, Keltron wrote:
Is there any justification to continue the use of the bible when it does not even meet the educational requirements of a fourth grader. In fact many of the stories of sexual immorality, genocide in the bible are damaging to young minds.

The Bible has a lot of political value to certain factions. Of course everyone just cherry picks whatever works for their ideology and ignores the rest. I don't think that most Christians have even read the Bible- at least not all the way through from front to back. It is actually not that hard of a read, and has some pretty interesting stories like how Abraham made his fortune by pimping out his wife.

not everyone does.

Jehovah's Witnesses take the whole of the Bible as their guide, using numerous translations to work out what each bit actually means as accurately as is humanly possible.

By publishing and using numerous translations the Jehovah's Witnesses support many conflicting doctrines found in the various bibles they have given their seal of approval.


This is a problem for the JW because they have to accept the differences in the other Bibles they publish and distribute with their seal of approval .

That is no problem for JWs.

They use, and encourage their followers to use as many different translations as they wish.

No, they don't - not in my experience. They rely heavily, almost exclusively, on the New World Translation.


"Now this places the JWs in a predicament since they cannot object to our use of the AV, especially when it contradicts the way the NWT renders a particular verse. After all, to argue that the AV is less than accurate, or not completely reliable, basically means that the Society knowingly used and printed a version that they knew was grossly misleading in the way it rendered specific texts. In fact, due to the "faulty" nature of the AV many people have come to embrace doctrines such as the Trinity, the two natures of Christ (i.e., the Hypostatic Union), the physical, bodily resurrection, ascension and return of Christ, the divine Personhood of the Holy Spirit, salvation by grace through faith alone etc. Therefore, how can the Society be trusted when it willfully published and distributed such a "perversion" of the Holy Bible? "

They would never wish to object to anyone using any translation of scriptures.


So not only are they contradicting their doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that they disagree with. But they are also promoting contradictory doctrines by publishing and distributing bibles that promote those doctrines.

They do not disagree with any translation, only with the way some use them.

Yeah, they do. They vehemently disagree with the translation of John 1: 1 in practically all standard translations. They "disagree" with it.

You really do love telling lies don't you.

Apparently we much prefer listening to them. After all, we read your posts. How you could say, "They (the JW's) do not disagree with any translation" with a straight face is beyond me. Why you've been on here hundreds of times bemoaning "dishonest trinitarian translators". Why? One reason: you disagree with the translations they produced.

McClowns mind ain't right. Be kind to him. There is so much in life he cannot enjoy anymore confined to his room because of his disability and financial debt. Bemoaning "dishonest trinitarian translators is his way of lashing back at people more blessed than him.
Harikrish
Posts: 29,658
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4/10/2017 2:08:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The prophesies of Isaiah 53, Daniel 9 and Psalms 22 all point to the Messiah failing and being killed. The death of the messiah would bring about the abomination of desolation and the end of times.

The possibility of that happening is very real to the Jews. They were under Roman rule since 63 BC. There is nothing in the prophesies listed that promised the Jews a messiah would come to overthrow the Romans and deliver them from oppression. It wasn't too long ago that the Jews were exiled to Babylon. They were back in their homeland and having rebuilt the temple was on the road to recovery only to be attacked and defeated by the Romans in 63 BC.

The Jews were desperately looking for a Messiah. But they were not looking for the type of messiah prophesied in Isaiah 53, Daniel 9 or Psalms 22 because that messiah was guaranteed to fail and bring about the abomination of desolation. Daniel 9, Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand

The Jews had good reasons to reject Jesus as their messiah because they saw he was not the conquering King they needed. Even John the Baptist expressed his doubts about Jesus. They were also looking at the warnings in the prophesies that the messiah would be put to death by the Roman Prince (Daniel 9) who would then go on to destroy Jerusalem and their sanctuary and desecrate their temple. That was not how the Jews wanted to see Judaism or their Israel end. But they were caught up in the moment and believe Jesus and welcomed him as their king.

Matthew 21:9
The crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed shouted, "Hosanna to the Son of David!" "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!" "Hosanna in the highest heaven!"

But when they saw Jesus at the trial mocked, beaten and ridiculed and heard him say he was not of this world, that his kingdom was not of this world. They felt betrayed by their fake messiah. He was as they had suspect a blasphemous liar and a lunatic. But they dared the Romans to crucify their messiah Jesus with the fading hope he would use his messianic powers to crush them as their messiah. To the Jews hope is eternal. They take their Jewish God of the bible seriously.

Now that we have the Jewish perspective on scriptures and their dilemma about Jesus claiming to be their messiah.

Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

Let us turn to what reason Jesus had to pursue his deluded messianic aspirations.
He had told his disciples not to tell anyone he as a messiah. Was he still harbouring some doubts himself?

Matthew 16:20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

So why did Jesus insist at the end he was their messiah being fully aware he was helpless to defeat the Romans and knowing all the prophesies said he would fail and his people would suffer the wrath of the Romans, who would first cut him off and then bring about the abomination of desolation Daniel spoke of, on his people (the Jews)?

The scriptures tell us he gave one reason for doing it.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

What is the other reason Jesus possibly had? It is possible that Jesus at the end of his ministry began to believe he was indeed a messiah because he suffered from a condition called Messiah Complex. This type of mental illness was common among the Jews especially in their Patriachs and prophets. The bible is littered with examples of Prophets chastising the Jews to repent and turn to God and identifying with the ranks of martyrdom.

Do scriptures tell us if Jesus regretted his decision or confirm he suffered from a messiah complex?
We have two examples which underscore his messianic aspirations.
His family confirmed Jesus was deluded and mentally ill and obsessed with the temple.

Mark 3:21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."

Jesus snapped out of his delusion on the cross and cried out.

Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

Does the bible make sense?

To Christians the bible makes sense. The Jews were doomed from the start and repeatedly punished by God throughout their history. God accepted animal sacrifices from the Jews as atonement for their sins. He restricted these offerings and sacrifices to the temple. But at some point God realized dead animals cannot forgive human sins. God discovered pagans have been making human sacrifices for centuries which apparently pleased both their Gods and the people unlike the Jews who were repeatedly going against his commands.

The Bibke tells us God switched to human sacrifice and used Jesus as an example .
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Today God only accepts human sacrifice of Jews and used Jesus as his first human sacrifice example. Hitler too believed Dead Jews like Jesus forgave sins. All Christians accept by sacrificing Jesus a Jew their sins were forgiven.

Was Jesus then responsible for sacrificing the Jews as atonement for sins by claiming he was a messiah when he was not and triggering the prophesies that brought about the abomination of desolation on the Jews?

Is that why the Jews fearing this trend that dead Jews can forgive sins have called for a United Israel homeland for the Jews protected by nuclear weapons? Or is it a conspiracy to gather all the Jews together so the world has a regular supply? That only makes sense if the bible makes sense.

Does the Bibke make sense?
Harikrish
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4/11/2017 8:50:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Read what someone who has preached for 25 years wrote to explain the prophesies of Daniel's 70 weeks. Daniels 70 weeks can be found in Daniel 9:20-27. Now compare the two explanations.
https://www.biblegateway.com...

Rondonmon wrote:

The Messiah was CUT OFF after the 7x7 and 62x7 which equals 69x7. So Jesus died after 69 weeks. There is one week left. It is Jacobs time of troubles. You see the prophecy is three sets of SEVENS. We have the 1x7 left. Leviticus 23 shows us a pattern.

There are Seven Feasts that Israel kept. The Passover, Unleavened Bread, First-fruits the Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement an Tabernacle.

Jesus fulfilled the Three Spring Feasts with his death.
1. Feast of Passover (His Blood)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread (Jesus had No Sin)
3. Feast of First-fruits (Jesus rose from the Dead)

Now we get the ONE FEAST that was alone on the Calendar, the Pentecost or Harvest.
4. Feast of Pentecost (This is the CHURCH AGE, Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, thus we Harvest Souls for the Sower, we are his body/arms/legs.)

The Fall Feasts arrive next. The Feast of Trumpets blow, but they never actually did anything, EXCEPT Announce that Pentecost was OVER and that Atonement was near. Thus the LAST TRUMP Paul speaks of has a proper meaning now. Jesus calls the Church Home with the LAST TRUMP, and thus Pentecost (Church Age) ENDS !!

5. Feast of Trumpets (Church Age Ends, the Church is called to Heaven. Israel's LAST WEEK Begins.........or Jacobs Trouble).

6. The Feast of Atonement ( Israel has to ATONE or REPENT before the 70th Week Decree can end. That is a Requirement of the Prophecy. )

7. The Feast of Tabernacle (Tabernacle means TO DWELL WITH GOD !! So after Israel Atones or accepts the Messiah Jesus, they can now Swell with God upon Jesus' Return.)

Jesus was Crucified after 69 WEEKS...........Why do you think God had three sets of SEVENS? Because the timelines are THREE DIFFERENT TIMELINES.

The Jewish Roman war 66-73 AD cause the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem. The Romans did that to brutally put down a Jewish rebellion. It had nothing to do with Jesus or his crucifixion.:

No, you just have to understand the Prophecy first, the Prophecy is SEVENTY SEVENS which is translated at times as WEEKS...But no where does God say this is a CONTINUAL YEARS PROPHECY, and thus by giving us three sets of SEVENS 7X7, 62X7 and 1x7 we should be able to figure this out, if it was continual years, God would have stated 70x7 !!! And he did not. The Messiah is CUT OFF, in due time the Sanctuary and Jerusalem were made desolate by the Romans, they carried Israel off into bondage, where they stayed until 1948. But the CHURCH AGE is still intact, when the Church is Raptured Israel will be back on the clock.

Its Irrelevant why they were destroyed. Jesus knew it and foretold it

Daniel's 70 Week Decree against Israel

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the age.

1. Finish the transgression
2. Make and end of sins
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up vision and prophecy
6. Anoint the most Holy

1. The Hebrew word used for transgression denotes revolt or rebellion. The Jewish people chose to reject God, many chose to stay in Babylon once they were freed. It also denotes their rejection of Jesus Christ. Jesus prophesied in Matthew 23:39 that the Jewish people would not see him again until they accepted him. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. So in order for Jesus to return, Israel has to repent of their rejection of God and Jesus, and Israel will open their hearts to the Messiah, as Paul, Isaiah and Zechariah (Zechariah 12:10) prophesied, among others.

2. This is fairly straightforward, sins can only end when the millennial reign starts, so by the time this 70 week decree is over, Jesus will have returned to set up his kingdom, ushering in the millennial kingdom where there will be no sins. Since the tribulation week is the last week of the 70 weeks decree, that makes perfect sense, as soon as the tribulation period ends, or the "time of Jacob's trouble", then "sins will end".

3. Israel has to be reconciled unto God before the 70 weeks have been fulfilled. There is no doubt that Jesus died for all of our sins, thus the atonement for sins has been made, but there is a conditional requirement for all of us to receive that atonement, we must accept Jesus as our Savior. When Israel accepts the Messiah Jesus, as their Messiah, then the atonement for sins will have been completed, and Israel will have been reconciled unto God, thereby ushering in the millennial kingdom.

4. This 70 week decree has to bring in everlasting righteousness, and we know this can not happen until Jesus sets up his Kingdom. This world has always had sin, and always will until Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. By the time Daniels prophecy ends, it must usher in everlasting righteousness.

5. Seal up vision and prophecy, the word used here denotes to close up, meaning that before this 70th week can come to an end, all prophecy must be fulfilled or closed up. This will only happen when Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah and he lands on Mt. Zion to rule over this wicked world with a rod of iron.

6. The very last goal that this 70 week prophecy has to usher in is the anointing of the most holy. The bible says most holy, many try to add holy place, but whether it is the temple being anointed, or Jesus Christ as Lord of Lord and Kings of Kings as I suspect, we know this must happen before the 70 weeks decree is fulfilled. And Jesus must return and rule on earth.

All six of these things have to happen before this prophecy is fulfilled. These are six spiritual goals that have to come to pass or this prophecy will not be finished or sealed up. We know these things have not come to pass yet, but we also know they are very near to happening, therefore watch, for Israel is now a nation again, and the world is against her, soon she will need her Messiah s help, then she will call upon him, and he will save her from this wicked world.

My response: "Jesus achieved very little in the 3 years of his ministry before he was crucified. He even told his disciples not to tell anyone he was a Messiah till the last few days before he was crucified. So all the different timelines mean nothing. Daniel said all would be wrapped up in 7 years after Jesus's arrival.

The time extension would not make it Daniels 70 weeks prophecy anymore. We are having to fill the gaps rather than admit Daniels prophecy failed. For Daniels prophecy to succeed Jesus had to be the Messiah. Jesus at his trial was evasive about being a Messiah and said his kingdom was not of this world. Therefore denying responsibility and his messiahship.

Repeatedly answering "You said that I am, or you have said so!" when asked. "Are you the king of the Jews?" were attempts to deflect the question."


Note: Daniel writes the people were ordered to rebuild the temple and complete the 6 decrees (orders). Those were not tasked to Jesus. How could Jesus anoint himself or rebuild the temple?

Daniel 9:24""Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
Harikrish
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4/12/2017 11:34:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Someone asked if Revelation was a view of the future.

Revelations is more like a view from back to the future. It is a collection of prophesies that are scattered throughout the Old Testament and organized in a chronological order so that the sequence of events may be determined. John the author reveals it as a Relevation from heaven and could only have come from Jesus who had to deal with those same prophesies while on earth. One can see the same incoherency in presentation much like what baffled Jesus's listeners who did not understand what Jesus was saying. But most Christians see that as an authentication of the source and understanding it matters less nor does its cryptic nature diminish its sacred value.

It belongs with the rest of apocalyptic visions where nothing good comes to circumcised Jews and death follows Jesus like a shadow climaxing in Armageddon. A lot of sevens are used and just when you think it is of some numerical value you are dropped triple sixes 666 which is the mark of the beast. Some have decoded it to mean Nero the cruel and infamous Roman Emperor others to the antichrist. Most hookers see that combination as a threesome.

For those who are concerned about their future and would like to see what is at the end of the tunnel might want to start from the authors bottom and work their way up to what he was thinking. Because if they can handle how the author has digested the trash they may get be less turned off by what he was fed.

I prefer to look at Revelation from a distance for the above reasons.

Those interested in my research can request I continue......Harikrish.
Harikrish
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4/16/2017 11:58:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why you need the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

Why Jesus sent the Holy Spirit ?

John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Why God took away Miracles and The GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?

The GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT were only needed when an inspired speaker stepped forward to declare God"s Word, God confirmed His Word by having the speaker perform a miracle to show that he was from God. The miracle showed the hearers that God was behind the speaker"s remarks. Miracles authenticated the spoken word as God"s Word. Miracles verified the teaching of God"s messengers, as over against the many false teachers (read John 3:2).

"Paul stated that miracles would cease and be done away when the "perfect" (or completed Word of God) had been revealed (1 Corinthians 13:8-10; James 1:25). Those things that were incomplete and partial (miraculous gifts) would be replaced by the total and complete (the fully revealed Word of God). Once God revealed all of the information that He wished to make available to people, the need for miracles to confirm the oral Word came to an end. Now, people can sit down with a New Testament, the written Word of God, and, with honest and diligent study, conclude that it is God"s Word. We have absolutely no need for miracles. Since there are no apostles living today, and since Holy Spirit baptism was unique to the apostles (Acts 2) and the first Gentile converts (Acts 10), there is no Holy Spirit baptism today. Likewise, there is no miraculous healing today. All those on whom the apostles had laid their hands are also dead (Acts 8:18). Once the last apostle died, the ability to perform miracles could not be passed on to others.

The Bible teaches that miracles are no longer necessary since we have everything we need to function in this life, to be pleasing to God, and to survive spiritually (Read 2 Peter 1:3)."

So why are there still Christians today claiming they are guided by the Holy Spirit when we see a decline in Miracles and the gifts of the Holy Spirit?

If you look at those who are making these claims you will find they are mostly the unschooled and school dropouts who call on the Holy Spirit to help them understand the scriptures just as 1st century Christians despite being told the gifts of the Holy Spirit are no more. They are the same group that haven't caught up with the sciences and live in profound ignorance.
WisdomOfAges
Posts: 962
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7/11/2019 9:59:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
the BIBLE? Which version? No matter the BIBLE is a load of babbling garbage invented by wandering tribal imbeciles of a long gone era. . . It is made up of stories that were filtered and selected by PARASITES of the CHURCH CULTS o use as a TOOL for enslaving stupid humans into servitude of some PREACHING CLOWN in a Halloween Glory Gown Costume who plays GOD. . .

have YOU met your GOD face to face? DAH, Of course not your GOD like all the other GOD inventions humans create is an illusion. . . A Comic book character like BATMAN
for the illiterate morons of a long gone era. . . The BIBLE is a clever rewrite of stories told by civilizations long before the JEW God - Jesus - and Allah were invented. . . They to are knockoffs of other GODS from other civilizations. . .

POINT. . . The BIBLE is a TOOL used to hypnotize and brainwash stupid humans into slavery of some CULT that will run their mind and life to serve them. . . GOD? Is never
visible or available only the CLOWN that preaches like one = HUMAN PARASITE VAMPIRE. . .

the JEW Torah - JESUS Bible - Allah Koran are all twisted relics stolen from other cultures. . . All 3 are hoaxes. . . All 3 are built on LIES and DECEIT. . . The only purpose these
ODS and Comic Book writings serve is the VAMPIRE HUMAN that plays GOD through them. . . .

For the FOOLS who are that retarded to fall for some BOZO that plays GOD using these TOOLS they deserve the FEAR - ANGER - INTIMIDATION - SLAVERY imposed on them. . . . .

How utterly PATHETIC for humans to still fall for the GOD HOAX VAMPIRES. . . The good
news is all of them will eventually DROP DEAD. . . Along with their idiot GOD hoax. . .
like all the other GODS before them. . . . .

As the OLD and OPPRESSED slaves of the JEW - JESUS - ALLAH God vanish forever from Earth. . The new generations will thrive and experience LIFE like no humans have. . . .

By mid century most of the baby boomers will be DEAD. . . . Good riddance. . . . They are the
last of the generations who LOVED WAR - DEATH and DESTRUCTION. . . They take it with
them to their graves. . . Along with their idiot JEW - JESUS - ALLAH God hoaxes

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