321 Total Votes

All arguments for God are terrible

203 votes

Fine tuning argument

The fine-tuned Universe is the proposition that the conditions that allow life in the Universe can only occur when certain universal fundamental physical constants lie within a very narrow range, so that if any of several fundamental constants were ... only slightly different, the Universe would be unlikely to be conducive to the establishment and development of matter, astronomical structures, elemental diversity, or life as it is understood. The proposition is discussed among philosophers, scientists, theologians, and creationists proponents.Physicist Paul Davies has asserted that "There is now broad agreement among physicists and cosmologists that the Universe is in several respects ‘fine-tuned' for life". However, he continues, "the conclusion is not so much that the Universe is fine-tuned for life; rather it is fine-tuned for the building blocks and environments that life requires." He also states that "'anthropic' reasoning fails to distinguish between minimally biophilic universes, in which life is permitted, but only marginally possible, and optimally biophilic universes, in which life flourishes because biogenesis occurs frequently". Among scientists who find the evidence persuasive, a variety of natural explanations have been proposed, such as the anthropic principle along with multiple universes. George F. R. Ellis observes "that no possible astronomical observations can ever see those other universes. The arguments are indirect at best. And even if the multiverse exists, it leaves the deep mysteries of nature unexplained.   more
39 votes
1 comment

Argument from reason

The argument from reason is an argument against metaphysical naturalism and for the existence of God. The best-known defender of the argument is C.S. Lewis. Lewis first defended the argument at length in his 1947 book, Miracles: A Preliminary Study....  In the second edition of Miracles, Lewis substantially revised and expanded the argument   more
16 votes


Argument from beauty, argument from conciousness, argument from digital physics, etc. etc.
13 votes
1 comment

Biological design

DNA, irreducible complexity, functions in genome etc.
11 votes

Cosmological argument

Including Kalam, Leibniz, etc.
10 votes

Argument from religious experience

The Argument from religious experience is an argument for the existence of God, as against materialism.
10 votes
1 comment

Argument from miracles

The argument from miracles is an argument for the existence of God relying on eyewitness testimony of the occurrence of miracles to establish the active intervention of a supernatural being.One example of the argument from miracles is the claim of s... ome Christians that historical evidence proves that Jesus rose from the dead, and this can only be explained if God exists. This is also known as the Christological argument for the existence of God. Another example is the claims of some Muslims that the Qur'an has many fulfilled prophecies, and this can also only be explained if God exists   more
8 votes

Ontological argument

An ontological argument is any one of a category of philosophical arguments for the existence of God using ontology. Many arguments fall under the category of the ontological, but they tend to involve arguments about the state of being or existing. ... More specifically, ontological arguments tend to start with an a priori theory about the organization of the universe. If that organizational structure is true, the argument will provide reasons why God must exist.It is widely accepted that the first ontological argument was proposed by Anselm of Canterbury in 1078 in his Proslogion. Anselm defined God as "...That than which nothing greater can be conceived," and then argued that this being could exist in the mind. He suggested that, if the greatest possible being exists in the mind, it must also exist in reality. If it only exists in the mind, a greater being is possible—one which exists in the mind and in reality. Seventeenth century French philosopher René Descartes deployed a similar argument. Descartes published several variations of his argument, each of which centered on the idea that God's existence is immediately inferable from a "clear and distinct" idea of a supremely perfect being. In the early eighteenth century, Gottfried Leibniz augmented Descartes' ideas in an attempt to prove that a "supremely perfect" being is a coherent concept. A more recent ontological argument came from Kurt Gödel, who proposed a formal argument for God's existence. Norman Malcolm revived the ontological argument in 1960 when he located a second, stronger ontological argument in Anselm's work; Alvin Plantinga challenged this argument and proposed an alternative, based on modal logic. Attempts have also been made to validate Anselm's proof using an automated theorem prover. Other arguments have been categorized as ontological, including those made by Islamic philosopher Mulla Sadra   more
6 votes

Argument from objective moral values

5 votes
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Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T07:44:42.7411082-06:00
I'm just waiting until the comments section explodes. Every time one of these polls is made, there's a civil war.
Kc1999 says2014-02-17T07:45:17.6384460-06:00
I take the Monarchist Side!
Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T07:47:34.0292460-06:00
I'm always on the side of the revolution... Unless they disagree with my beliefs...
Kc1999 says2014-02-17T07:49:13.9983757-06:00
*two sides created*
Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T07:53:53.7176460-06:00
Well, we set the stage for civil war. Now someone just needs to get into it.
Kc1999 says2014-02-17T07:54:40.3928460-06:00
Not me. I have to go to sleep
Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T07:54:58.6292460-06:00
I'll post something really controversial to piss someone off and then there'll be someone that comes to my aid then everyone will start commenting in mass chaos.
Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T07:55:13.1891391-06:00
I'll post something really controversial to tick someone off and then there'll be someone that comes to my aid then everyone will start commenting in mass chaos.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-17T07:55:20.5472460-06:00
I'll add a side, the by-standers.
Kc1999 says2014-02-17T07:56:29.7176460-06:00
OK *flare lit*
Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T07:58:22.8805245-06:00
Evolution is a big myth created by scientists to get a control of the anti-religious so you guys could have something to stand on because even in a good day you don't all agree!
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-17T07:58:47.6222831-06:00
I agree jonbonbon, so I guess I'm the aid
Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T08:05:04.4103691-06:00
Come on! Someone fight!
TheWarrior says2014-02-17T08:13:12.8826622-06:00
I think the other side is scared.
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T08:21:46.5094922-06:00
It seems 6 people accidently clicked the wrong answer. If anyone can list 1 reason why the video is wrong i'll change my vote to whatever you want
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T08:22:13.8562922-06:00
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T08:22:41.9715653-06:00
Hmmmmm, broken link. The video is god's god on youtube
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T08:35:29.3643148-06:00
@jonbonbon Explain how atheists argue when the bible contradicts itself, no wonder it's followers seem so dumb and confused! Http://answers.Yahoo.Com/question/index?Qid=20080416121544AAdQn9S (Hoping the link works)
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T08:36:21.5466153-06:00
Ugh, just read the debate between danielawesome12 and jacandmac while I throw my laptop out the window.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-17T08:36:46.6314153-06:00
Explain how it contradicts itself without sounding like an idiot
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T08:43:30.2190153-06:00
@RebelRebelDixieDixie01 I feel bad for your debate record 0-12-2, how does that even happen?
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T08:44:07.3002153-06:00
You think someone would have atleast forfeited/not typed on 1 of the 14 debates you've completed
TheWarrior says2014-02-17T08:45:47.1765084-06:00
@Actionsspeak, are you avoiding his question? How does the Bible contradict itself?
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T08:49:57.3055485-06:00
Here are a few examples: 1.Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel? (a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1) (b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1) 2.In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel? (a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9) (b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5) 3. How many fighting men were found in Judah? (a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9) (b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5) 4.God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine? (a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13) (b) Three (I Chronicles 21:12) 5.How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem? (a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26) (b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2) 6.How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem? (a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8) (b) Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9) 7.How long did he rule over Jerusalem? (a) Three months (2 Kings 24:8) (b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9) 8.The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time? (a) Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8) (b) Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11) 9.When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after? (a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6) (b) Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14) 10.How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark? (a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20) (b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9) 11.When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture? (a) One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4) (b) Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4) 12.How many stalls for horses did Solomon have? (a) Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26) (b) Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25) 13.In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die? (a) Twenty-sixth year (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8) (b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1) 14.How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple? (a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2) (b) Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16) 15.Solomon built a facility containing how many baths? (a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26) (b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5) 16.Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab? (a) Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6) (b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11) 17.How many were the children of Zattu? (a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8) (b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13) 18.How many were the children of Azgad? (a) One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12) (b) Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17) 19.How many were the children of Adin? (a) Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15) (b) Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20) 20.How many were the children of Hashum? (a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19) (b) Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22) 21.How many were the children of Bethel and Ai? (a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28) (b) One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32) 22.Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows: (a) 29,818 (Ezra) (b) 31,089 (Nehemiah) 23.How many singers accompanied the assembly? (a) Two hundred (Ezra 2:65) (b) Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67) 24.What was the name of King Abijah's mother? (a) Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2) (b) Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27) 25.Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem? (a) Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40) (b) No (Joshua 15:63) 26.Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary? (a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16) (b) Hell (Luke 3:23) 27.Jesus descended from which son of David? (a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6) (b) Nathan (Luke3: 31) 28.Who was the father of Shealtiel? (a) Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12) (b) Neri' (Luke 3:27) 29.Which son of Zerubbabel was an ancestor of Jesus Christ? (a) Abiud (Matthew 1: 13) (b) Rhesa (Luke 3:27) but the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: i. Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v. Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (I Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anyway. 30.Who was the father of Uzziah? (a) Joram (Matthew 1:8) (b) Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1) 31.Who as the father of Jechoniah? (a) Josiah (Matthew 1:11) (b) Jeholakim (I Chronicles 3:16) 32.How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ? (a) Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17) (b) But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1: 12-16) 33.Who was the father of Shelah? (a) Cainan (Luke 3:35-36) (b) Arphaxad (Genesis II: 12) 34.Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come? (a) Yes (Matthew II: 14, 17:10-13) (b) No (John 1:19-21) 35.Would Jesus inherit David's throne? (a) Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32) (b) No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon David's throne (Jeremiah 36:30) 36.Jesus rode into Jerusalem on how many animals? (a) One - a colt (Mark 11:7; cf Luke 19:3 5). "And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it." (b) Two - a colt and an *** (Matthew 21:7). "They brought the *** and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon." 37.How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ? (a) By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17) (b) His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41) 38.Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew? (a) By the Sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22) (b) On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43) 39.When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus' daughter already dead? (a) Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, "My daughter has just died." (b) No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, "My little daughter is at the point of death." 40.Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey? (a) Yes (Mark6: 8) (b) No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3) 41.Did Herod think that Jesus was John the Baptist? (a) Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16) (b) No (Luke 9:9) 42.Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus before his baptism? (a) Yes (Matthew 3:13-14) (b) No (John 1:32,33) 43.Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism? (a) Yes (John 1:32, 33) (b) No (Matthew 11:2) 44.According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness? (a) "If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true" (John 5:3 1) (b) "Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true" (John 8:14)
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T08:55:01.7567178-06:00
That is just a copy and paste from danielawesome12's debate with jacandmac, if you actually follw the ling you'll find 16 more. Not to mention incredibly ignorant science such as saying the world is flat.
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T08:56:46.8784029-06:00
Follow the debat, not the ling. Curse you laptop
Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T09:37:53.1361694-06:00
Yay someone responded! One question though, how the hell did you think I was being serious? Did you read anything I said?
Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T09:38:55.5985694-06:00
I'm not gonna lie, you seem kind of like an idiot. You used a few logical fallacies up there including the ad hominem and red herring.
TheWarrior says2014-02-17T09:44:41.6586777-06:00
Answering the contradictions. 1. God used Satan to provoke David. 2. A slight variation in numbers is expected when counting that many people by hand. 3. Same answer as 2. 4. Probably just a copyist error and the better preserved text says three years. 5. Another copyist error. This is the first 5 supposed contradictions. Most of the rest are either copyist errors or a slight problem with name variations or context issues. Remember Matthew follows the line of Joseph and Luke follows the line of Mary. None of these come anywhere close to being real problems. Why do you feel the need to harp on Christianity so much. I believe that every other holy book has slight variation in them also.
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T11:06:45.5385110-06:00
@jonbonbon I find it rude you believe i'm an idiot, but oh well believe what you want. I obviously can't see your body language and religion is a serious topic that has resulted in millions of deaths through history. The thirty years war alone resulted in between 3-11.5 million deaths.
Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T11:21:07.0686932-06:00
Well, first of all, it's not rude that I believe you're an idiot. It was probably rude for me to say that though. It doesn't, however, change my opinion of you. You're not even addressing your fallacies, and you're taking extreme examples where personal belief was elevated above what the religion actually would have condoned to represent the religion. There are people who commit actions against their religion or actions their religion would have condemned but still say they're part of that religion. To use them as a representation for the religion they're ignoring is the straw man logical fallacy. Try again.
Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T11:21:41.0142932-06:00
Plus, 3 to 11.5 million is a difference of 8.5 million. That's a lot of people. You might want to work out your numbers before you start throwing them out there.
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T11:43:38.3270163-06:00
@TheWarrior 1. The Bible says different in Chronicles 2 1:1 2. 300,000 isn't slight 3. I can agree that 30,000 is slight compared to 2 4. No the bible actually says that 5. Finally you did it you found an error. Congratulations you disproved 3% of my arguments *applause* Anyways, unto someone who is slightly less serious @JonBonBon I can find it rude it I want to, it's my opinion. In no way/shape/form am I using "straw man fallacies" and I didn't even mention what's possibly the more extreme case (The Crusades) in which 2.3% of the global human population died over a book of false beliefs. I could also mention the brutal burning death of 900 jews due to black death persecution or the over 11,000 deaths last year due to Islamic extremists (the full report can be found on TRP's website fore anyone who cares) Part or having religion is having idiotic extremists in almost every religion who will savagely kill for it, Religion and Death will always go hand-in-hand this may as well be a FACT.
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T11:45:28.2117390-06:00
@JonBonBon 3 million to 11.5 million is based on the the low to high estimate it was likely about 7.5 million.
Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T11:47:16.8189390-06:00
People who take a religious book and hide behind it to justify their actions that are completely opposite of the religion do not represent the religion. People do the same thing with Origin of Species. That's where we get Social Darwinists, except that's actually valid according to Darwinian Evolution. You can say the person claimed religion, but you can't say they did it according to the religion.
Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T11:48:48.9369390-06:00
So basically, you're still logically fallacious.
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T11:53:04.1841390-06:00
@JonBonBon "People who take a religious book and hide behind it to justify their actions that are completely opposite of the religion do not represent the religion." Yes I agree they are opposite, bit they will always go hand-in-hand religion will always lead to death whether it be by persecution, terrorism, or war. Although it's led to the meaningless death of over 1% of the pupulation (twice already) that's only in war religion will always use its "perfect way to live to justify murder" and I highly doubt that you can find a single month after Religion was made that nobody died or persecution/war/terrorism. As you say "try again"
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T11:54:36.4113390-06:00
*of not or
TheWarrior says2014-02-17T11:55:22.0917394-06:00
Actually, I disproved about 10 percent of your arguments. But, I will say again none of those arguments hurt the overall message of the Bible and all can be easily explained away. There will always be people like you who only want to discredit the Bible. You will always find fault with anything you really want to find fault with. I do have a question. Have you ever read the Bible for your self?
abyteofbrain says2014-02-17T11:59:07.4181394-06:00
WilliamsP: That paragraph wasn't thought out. Can you prove that science is the ultimate truth? Can you prove that there are no exceptions? Have you actually seen one scientific piece of evidence against a god? The Christian God created science, and is not effected by it. If someone is perfect, then they can handle anything. It doesn't really matter whether or not a god "deserves" power. If that being has power, he has it regardless of whether he "deserves" it.
Actionsspeak says2014-02-17T11:59:20.9409996-06:00
Well i'm done with commenting @JonBonBon feel free to make the last comment and think you won.
Jonbonbon says2014-02-17T12:01:18.7996621-06:00
I actually did win... Since your original point was destroyed... Like actually it never stood because it was logically fallacious.
conservativelogic says2014-02-17T13:48:22.8403042-06:00
The cell theory states that all cells (the building blocks of life) come from other cells. In other words, a cell grows and then splits to form two new cells. If all cells came from other living cells, then how did the first cell come to exist?
SNP1 says2014-02-17T14:04:12.2289855-06:00
Conservativelogic: Abiogenesis
Macgreggor says2014-02-17T19:06:05.9090938-06:00
This again? My question is why does it need to be argued that god does or doesn't exist? Really? Because that is all it is ARGUMENT.
reece says2014-02-17T21:49:14.9687405-06:00
Why are arguments bad? Debating/arguments help us test our logic and rationality under pressure while showing the opponent/opponents that what you are saying is sound,not so much on DDO but the idea is still there.
reece says2014-02-17T21:50:27.0251405-06:00
By sound i mean convey a specified impression when heard.
etherealvoyager says2014-02-17T23:07:25.7053976-06:00
Actually quite surprised at the amount of people saying that 'All arguments for God are terrible,' but oh well
Romanii says2014-02-18T00:34:10.5369795-06:00
@ethereal: that is exactly why I don't include atheistic options on my theological polls anymore. They will always just choose that option without even thinking about it hypothetically and making an actually interesting contribution.
Actionsspeak says2014-02-18T00:36:20.6730137-06:00
@Romanii If you remove the atheist opinion most people simply wouldn't answer, and aren't polls suppost to show what the people believe?
Romanii says2014-02-18T00:41:07.8207337-06:00
Actionsspeak: Adding an atheistic option to a theological poll is like having a poll called "What if there was empirical evidence for God's nonexistence" and adding the option of "God definitely exists so that won't happen". Obviously a majority of theists will just choose that without thinking at all about the other options In the same way, atheists don't even try to think through the rest of the options when they see the atheistic option. If there is no easy-way-out option then hopefully the person will be a good enough sport that they will overcome their biases to actually THINK about it.
Actionsspeak says2014-02-18T00:46:47.6846693-06:00
@Romanii I don't get at all what you mean, polling is used to show public opinion. If you know 100% that all atheistic people will vote that they believe in atheism, couldn't you simply ignore their votes and tally the rest to see what their opinion is? If anything if helps add data by showing the christian to atheist ratio for DDO. Nevertheless you still get the results you wanted for the most common argument for god's existence.
Romanii says2014-02-18T11:55:33.2914568-06:00
I'd rather get answers that are actually insightful. If you believe all arguments are terrible then at least choose the one that is the LEAST terrible.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T12:18:50.9426342-06:00
All of them are bad! Let's start the battle!!! What's 1 argument that proves god?
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T12:30:01.6837136-06:00
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T12:31:26.1889136-06:00
Romanii says2014-02-19T19:14:24.9818254-06:00
@StopDude: like I said, choose the LEAST terrible. I agree that none of them really prove God.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:21:18.9937004-06:00
I just wanted to start am argument...
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:22:29.0065004-06:00
And rebel, give me an argument. Not some random video...
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T19:24:43.0881988-06:00
Ok, if God doesn't exist, then how are we here?
SNP1 says2014-02-19T19:25:24.5371331-06:00
Lol, even I know that one
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:25:31.4634887-06:00
Parents. Next question...
SNP1 says2014-02-19T19:25:51.0725630-06:00
Lol, even I know that one
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T19:26:22.8678535-06:00
Before them and before the grandparents, stop giving me answers like you don't know what im talking about.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:26:45.9842110-06:00
No no, he's mine snip.
SNP1 says2014-02-19T19:27:29.9603291-06:00
*cough* abiogenesis *cough*
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:27:59.8185377-06:00
(Lol, that was one answer...) Great grandparents? :D... Or of course, simultaneous causation.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:28:14.8141711-06:00
Maybe through a multiverse in there...
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T19:29:05.7593150-06:00
Please explain to me what simultaneous causation is.
Jonbonbon says2014-02-19T19:29:09.0352940-06:00
Is there like a PM you guys could take this to maybe pretty please with a cherry on top?
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T19:29:46.3814546-06:00
I don't like cherries, or apples for that matter
SNP1 says2014-02-19T19:29:48.1598432-06:00
But I want to see it
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:30:36.6346533-06:00
This is the idea that cause and effect can happen simultaneously. The cause of the Universe could have happened at the same time of it's effect. Let's say we have atoms A, B, and C. If atom A causes atom B, then atom B would cause atom C, and atom C would cause atom A. Why accept god over simultaneous causation? (@Jonelle: You can stop messages from this thread if you wish. I'll respect your wishes if you decide not to though...)
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:31:27.5629355-06:00
Snip can see it.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:31:54.7852845-06:00
(I was going to say abiogenesis, but this one's easier to explain mate...)
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T19:31:57.7805229-06:00
Then I guess the atoms A, B, and C just came into existence then.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:32:39.0586521-06:00
I mean... Yeah. Is that your argument?
SNP1 says2014-02-19T19:32:58.3762533-06:00
DudeStop, if you ever want help you can just ask. If not then I can just keep watching.
Jonbonbon says2014-02-19T19:33:06.4414533-06:00
You guys can have multiple people in a PM. Maybe you could see if you can find another theist that wants to take RRDD's side.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:33:43.0506725-06:00
That may not be the way it happened. It's just an example explaining simultaneous causation, which is possible.
Jonbonbon says2014-02-19T19:34:06.8134533-06:00
Wait, you can just turn off notifications? How do I do that?
Jonbonbon says2014-02-19T19:34:18.0766533-06:00
That's just good life knowledge
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T19:34:20.2294533-06:00
It is possible, with a God.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:34:39.8542533-06:00
Jonbonbon says2014-02-19T19:35:12.1902153-06:00
Just tell me how to get rid of the notifications :P
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:35:18.7266991-06:00
Why not without a god? Why assume god over simultaneous causation?
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-19T19:35:42.0046533-06:00
Atoms A, B, and C? Also it is a million times more likely for total raw energy to be the first thing to ever come in existence than a complex god that has an ego and just one day decides to create an infinite universe and then writes a book that is filled with more errors than an autistic first graders spelling test.
SNP1 says2014-02-19T19:36:48.3648287-06:00
Stalin_Mario: This is DudeStop's debate.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:37:01.1724287-06:00
@Jonbonbon Profile. Edit profile. Setting. Notifications. Choose.
Jonbonbon says2014-02-19T19:37:41.2332287-06:00
How do I stop the notifications?
Jonbonbon says2014-02-19T19:37:52.0596287-06:00
Mek dem stahp!
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:38:26.9902533-06:00
@MarioStalin: That'd be a non sentient force idea, or some different thing that I forgot the name of...
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:39:00.4678533-06:00
I just told you you filthy mongrel.
Jonbonbon says2014-02-19T19:39:45.0192287-06:00
Oh, I was writing that as you posted and it didn't update :P
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:41:22.0980287-06:00
Oh yeah, I'm sure...
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:41:57.1200287-06:00
This thread might have died anyways if Rebels not going to respond...
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-19T19:42:32.5342533-06:00
@DudeStop, to be 100% I believe that our Universe has always been here and will always be here; the Universe's age can be compared to the number line (-∞ to ∞ ) . For me all the evidence for the Big Bang is that there was a massive explosion, but it didn't create the entire Universe, but just our portion of the Universe. That for me seems to make more sense, but that's just my opinion.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:44:21.5136287-06:00
Oooh, interesting. I like that theory that it only made a fraction of our vast universe... However, I think it's already been disproved that the universe is eternal.
SNP1 says2014-02-19T19:55:06.3407570-06:00
The universe cannot be eternal, you are correct on saying that it is disproven. The current model shows the universe being about 14 billion years old. Also, we have an understanding of how something can come from nothing.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T19:59:09.6392381-06:00
I could think of at least 5 plausible theories without God...
SNP1 says2014-02-19T20:00:02.5235211-06:00
There are many theories that do not require God.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T20:01:28.0103570-06:00
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T20:22:38.4906297-06:00
Dude stop, I didn't respond because I actually have a life.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T20:28:13.8473367-06:00
But... This is a debate website, and you were responding to the other arguments. In fact, you came back to the bloody page an hour after I commented and kept on commenting. Grow a spine and respond to arguments, stop using logical fallacies, and get an actual life.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T20:28:54.4697367-06:00
And lol, I bet I actually do moe things with my life than you do...
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T20:30:37.4297367-06:00
Doubtful, I'm gone from my house 13 hours a day. Mostly, sometimes 20
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T20:31:39.3149367-06:00
Yes, I was responding to the other arguments, then I went somewhere
SNP1 says2014-02-19T20:31:47.9286074-06:00
DudeStop: One of my friends says he got his hands on the blueprints for the hadron collider. We want to build a small scale one. I hope that he is not lying, it would be awesome to have access to a hadron collider. I hope it is not illegal to have one, I need to look it up.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T20:32:38.3141367-06:00
So why don't you respond now that you're back on...? Idc about your schedule, just give me your argument.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T20:34:45.7037367-06:00
Why assume god over simultaneous causation? Because unlike atheists, I have hope we aren't monkeys.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T20:35:14.4545367-06:00
And the ABC atoms could not pop into existence
DudeStop says2014-02-19T20:37:52.3886781-06:00
1. I'm going to call for backup for an expert to explain evolution, as you evidently know noting of it. (AND HE'S A THEIST!!!) 2. I need you to answer the question, don't dodge it.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T20:39:55.3213305-06:00
I know about evolution, but the fact is that there are still apes, and the common ancestor thing is stupid.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T20:40:26.8489305-06:00
I only have 3% left, make it quick
SNP1 says2014-02-19T20:40:53.3689305-06:00
You obviously do not know about evolution...
DudeStop says2014-02-19T20:41:38.8074571-06:00
Oh my God, I think I just had a mini heart attack.
SNP1 says2014-02-19T20:42:54.1247399-06:00
Ring species anyone?
Romanii says2014-02-19T20:50:29.3020650-06:00
@DudeStop: expert? Flattered
Romanii says2014-02-19T20:51:07.6780650-06:00
@Rebel: state your top 3 arguments against the theory of Evolution.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T20:53:41.7636158-06:00
@Romanii Meh. I just knew that you loved this topic, and that RebelDixieCup failed 2nd grade science...
Romanii says2014-02-19T20:56:24.3729258-06:00
Oy Rebel, answer! Or would you rather do an actual debate on the topic?
DudeStop says2014-02-19T20:59:09.6452536-06:00
Oh no mate, he has a life apparently. He can't answer to the Godless Heathens.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-19T21:07:02.1824463-06:00
Wait a minute. Rebel is gone 13 to 20 hours from his hour each day???????? Those are the most made up and laughably numbers I have ever heard. Clearly he never leaves his house, or he would have put some reasonable numbers down. I mean even if it was true, then your house must be a total dump if you spend over half of your day out of it, everyday. And 20 hours? So you come back to your house, sleep for 4 hours, then leave again to your "Adventure of searching for Jesus"? Rebel you truly say the dumbest things on here.
Romanii says2014-02-19T21:11:23.0595740-06:00
Lol I'm a God-Believing Heathen.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T21:12:25.9427709-06:00
He's like, to stupid to make fun of...
DudeStop says2014-02-19T21:12:59.7789540-06:00
Actually, I was gonna correct you but you are.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-19T21:13:39.1755767-06:00
*house not hour. Stupid OCD forced me to correct my mistake. :(
DudeStop says2014-02-19T21:13:47.6151767-06:00
And LoL, I doubt he would spend his two minutes on DDO!
DudeStop says2014-02-19T21:15:00.3836337-06:00
You also said laughably instead of laughable, if it counts...
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-19T21:16:29.1687767-06:00
I don't feel like talking to bullies, I'm actually contacting the police for cyber bullying.
Romanii says2014-02-19T21:18:16.7931767-06:00
@Rebel: how is challenging you to a debate cyber bullying?
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-19T21:19:47.3199767-06:00
So someone who disagrees with you is a cyber bully? Also you don't know what cyber bullying is (along with everything else) as it is only cyber bullying if you actually know the person in real life. Someone posting a mean comment from a computer far far away can not be charged with anything if they don't know you personally. Must be awesome be so ignorant, not knowing anything, everything being new everyday.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T21:19:59.5191767-06:00 Yeah no good luck with that.
DudeStop says2014-02-19T21:23:39.5571767-06:00
Also, in Minnesota the legal definition of cyber bullying is to intimidate or threaten someone on the internet. Lol wut.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T09:13:34.4152256-06:00
You said I'm too stupid to make fun of, that's cyber bullying
DudeStop says2014-02-20T09:14:45.0661296-06:00
Read Mario STALIN'S comment... Read your polls... Stop talking...
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T09:16:46.5304792-06:00
You said I APPARENTLY have a life, you said I failed 2nd grade science, you said grow a spine.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T09:19:17.8816792-06:00
I fully understand that, but yet again you're missing the entire point. YOU made a biased poll attacking atheists, and with your own logic that counts as cyber bullying. Even though everyone else definition is different, you brutally shot yourself in the foot.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T09:19:28.7661589-06:00
DudeStop says2014-02-20T09:20:21.5250207-06:00
And yet again, it'n bit cyber bullying If I had no idea who you are...
DudeStop says2014-02-20T09:22:02.1599756-06:00
Its not***
DudeStop says2014-02-20T09:23:06.4481563-06:00
Ohhh and look at this... "Explain how it contradicts itself without sounding like an idiot"
SNP1 says2014-02-20T09:23:56.4182419-06:00
Rebel, NONE of that is cyber bullying. Want to talk about cyber bullying? My cousin was cyber bullied for a couple years and we never found out until her suicide note. This is NOT cyber bullying. If you think that this is cyber bullying then you really need to grow up and look at the REAL world. This wouldn't even pass for normal bullying, my boss said similar stuff to me.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T09:28:24.6598391-06:00
I'm sorry to hear that SNP1.
SNP1 says2014-02-20T09:30:34.9059089-06:00
Thanks. With how many people I know that have gone through hell I get annoyed at people a little easier.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T09:56:05.8265831-06:00
I think rebel claimed he'd gone through something worse than hell once... I have no idea what it was though...
reece says2014-02-20T09:57:49.4113357-06:00
Isn't rebel a girl?
reece says2014-02-20T10:01:11.2155229-06:00
Nvm,it was the long hair that got me.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T10:28:19.0329155-06:00
I got confused a bit to, not to offend him in anyway...
DudeStop says2014-02-20T12:49:27.6288739-06:00
So are we done here then?
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T13:51:14.4797472-06:00
I still can't believe how dumb Rebel is. It really amazes me.
NotBryceWaight13 says2014-02-20T14:39:27.7888281-06:00
According to Newtons Law of motion it states that an object at rest tends to stay at rest unless acted on by another force. How did we come to live with out God giving us a kickstart?
DudeStop says2014-02-20T14:49:30.3866960-06:00
Simultaneous causation.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T14:50:14.4367593-06:00
Who gave God a kick start?
DudeStop says2014-02-20T15:20:50.4234743-06:00
He's gaaaaawwwwd...
marinaspins says2014-02-20T17:16:35.8021793-06:00
How about the argument that hes not real?? Anybody wanna go?
DudeStop says2014-02-20T17:17:48.7633793-06:00
Which god are you talking about?
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T18:00:14.6559384-06:00
I admit there are contradictions in the New Testament, more than in the old, which is the one I read.
SNP1 says2014-02-20T18:03:49.8905181-06:00
The New Testament is not reliable, none of it was written by eye-witnesses. The Old Testament is full of inconsistencies and should not be taken as reliable.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T18:04:18.7511704-06:00
Why do you say that?
SNP1 says2014-02-20T18:09:30.4392287-06:00
First, we know that the creation is not viable. Second, we know that Noah's Flood never happened. Third, the Egyptians would never give Joseph, a Hebrew, any power. Forth, we know that large amounts of Hebrews were not kept as slaves. I think that is enough to prove that the OT is unreliable by contradictions. If you want information about the NT one of my friends says it best in his YouTube video (you can fact check it as well)
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T18:10:22.7148287-06:00
Can I ask you a question?
SNP1 says2014-02-20T18:10:47.1132287-06:00
What is it?
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T18:11:25.7700287-06:00
What do you believe about truth?
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T18:18:33.7700805-06:00
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T18:26:23.8346749-06:00
What do you believe about truth? What kind of question is that?
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T18:27:32.0497556-06:00
Do you believe there is no absolute truth? Or do you believe there IS absolute truth?
DudeStop says2014-02-20T18:30:08.6103520-06:00
As in something that is always valid?
DudeStop says2014-02-20T18:30:32.3689997-06:00
Regardless of parameters and context.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T18:31:58.9083766-06:00
Rebel, you need to make that question more specific as it can mean many different things.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T18:35:52.5345980-06:00
YES, there is absolute truth. Obviously. So what?
SNP1 says2014-02-20T18:43:35.5269980-06:00
Sorry, had to help one of my friends with something. As a skeptic I doubt everything, yet when I choose not to think skeptically I believe there is absolute truth. I know I am here, that is an absolute truth.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T18:46:24.0228812-06:00
How can there be an absolute truth without a god? Without a God there is no absolute truth.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T18:48:47.3843190-06:00
How do you know this Rebel? And if so, what makes your God the true one?
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T18:49:41.4265466-06:00
If there is no God, not just my God, then there could be no absolute, the would only be assumptions.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T18:54:18.4517211-06:00
How do you know there could be no absolute with out a God?
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T18:55:46.8257211-06:00
Because a God could be the only one to declare absolute
DudeStop says2014-02-20T18:56:49.6469211-06:00
Everyone shut up! There is a contradiction in the statement that there is not an absolute truth. Because that itself would be an absolute truth, making it immediately a contradiction. The statement that there is an absolute truth is the absolute truth. It doesn't really prove god. NEXT!!!
DudeStop says2014-02-20T18:58:10.1399952-06:00
And lol, if god was real he'd defy most of the things we deem true, like logic.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T18:58:25.1501211-06:00
Rebel, again, how do you know a God could be the only one to declare absolute? Just because your parents say it doesn't make it true.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T18:58:52.5749211-06:00
If God doesn't exist, who wrote the bible?
DudeStop says2014-02-20T18:59:55.6739952-06:00
Which one?
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T19:00:59.3873211-06:00
Rebel, old crazy men wrote the bible. The fact that there is one error and contradiction in the bible proves that it was not written by a God.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T19:02:05.3249733-06:00
Wait wait wait. Is that your argument? LOL. Name one thing in the bible that couldn't have been said or written by a human. You'll have nothing. Then look for something that could be said or written by a human, and nothing woul've changed. NEXT!!!
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T19:04:43.9032907-06:00
How could, 3500 years ago, a crazy old man, as you say Stalin Mario, know that a tree neared trees of its kind, and every living thing bears its kind?
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T19:05:02.2178081-06:00
DudeStop says2014-02-20T19:06:04.4310069-06:00
*Crazy old MEN* lol
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T19:07:28.4769018-06:00
Rebel please tell me the verse you got this from.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T19:08:38.1161208-06:00
Genesis 1:11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T19:15:55.4532442-06:00
Okay, so that does not at all relate to what you said before. Also you do realize that man(Humans) have been growing food 10,000 years ago (8,000 years before the bible was written). Of course they would know that trees/plants of the same kind would grow near other plants/trees of the same kind. That verse proves nothing.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T19:17:49.5672442-06:00
SNP1 says2014-02-20T19:19:36.2823288-06:00
On a different page Rebel has claimed that atheists know there is a god... How stupid is that?
DudeStop says2014-02-20T19:22:49.7436102-06:00
Ha ha.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T19:23:19.8830034-06:00
RebelDixi, so what'd the police say?
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T19:24:13.6797506-06:00
You all know what I'm talking about, you don't want to accept a higher power.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T19:24:53.1011283-06:00
The universe has only been around for 6000 years mar
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T19:24:58.7328366-06:00
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T19:33:40.4021748-06:00
Rebel you are so stupid, that it's actually sad. You have no clue what you're talking about at all. All you're doing is wasting your one and only life on a made up lie and making yourself look stupid to everyone. Thankfully in a couple hundred years from now - when people are reasonable and logical - atheism, agnosticism, and deism will be in the majority and all other religions combined will be the minority.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T19:34:21.7447673-06:00
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T19:36:54.1099818-06:00
That's fine if you want to be the laughing stock of everyone that's somewhat intelligent. That's your right as a Human being.
SNP1 says2014-02-20T19:37:02.1128331-06:00
We have trees older than 6000 years...
DudeStop says2014-02-20T19:37:14.1873105-06:00
Name the argument that we dodged.
SNP1 says2014-02-20T19:39:09.5344499-06:00
If you are talking to me, I did, as well as one of the more complex arguments.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T19:40:49.4842906-06:00
We have found a star that is called Abell 1835 IR1916 that is 1302 billion light years away from Earth. That also proves that the Universe is older than 6,000 years. Come on use your brain.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T19:41:00.3107600-06:00
Lol I was taking to rebel- which one of his arguments was complex?
SNP1 says2014-02-20T19:42:36.1372956-06:00
He told me in a different comment section to explain how everything could exist today. I mentioned both simultaneous causation and a more complex one.
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T19:42:51.9246980-06:00
Haven't contacted the police yet, I figured you guys aren't as bad as some
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T19:44:50.1614904-06:00
The police would have only told you that you were an idiot for calling them. Also I love how you run away from all the statements that we post proving you wrong.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T19:45:41.5010904-06:00
Do you have anymore arguments? Do you think we never fully answered your arguments?
SNP1 says2014-02-20T19:47:14.3976262-06:00
I would love to see what you have left to ask.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T19:48:03.0866904-06:00
@Snip:abiogenesis? Retro causality? What? A non sentient force?
DudeStop says2014-02-20T19:49:52.7234904-06:00
@Stalinmario: That's because it takes about 50 words per refutation of his arguments...
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T19:50:26.9498904-06:00
I have an argument, do we need to argue anymore? Cant we coexist? From now on I will respect your beliefs based on your evidence that has changed my view on atheism, as long as you respect my belief system. I would highly appreciate it if you accept this offer, arguing with you has caused me a lot of stress and time away from my family.
SNP1 says2014-02-20T19:50:26.9640262-06:00
I gave him one of the spin-offs (I think it is a spin-off, it might be what he actually was theorizing) of Lawrence Krauss's something from nothing theory
DudeStop says2014-02-20T19:55:31.6359464-06:00
Lol okay I accept.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T19:55:47.2363464-06:00
Anyone want to have a war with me?
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T19:56:36.9548212-06:00
I honestly hope that we can be half way friends,maven if we have debates from time to time
RebelRebelDixieDixie01 says2014-02-20T19:56:44.2012783-06:00
SNP1 says2014-02-20T19:58:28.5802092-06:00
I lost my book on Lawrence Krauss's A universe from Nothing. Do you know what the theory was? I cannot remember what it exactly is.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T20:01:21.0401175-06:00
We can only coexist together in a peaceful society/world if and only if we don't psychically hurt each other (without the consent of the other person) and/or force our beliefs on other people. This meaning that no religion can create a law forcing others to obey their beliefs. For example gay marriage, gay marriage would be legal in this type of world, as the people will have freedom to do whatever they want, as long as they don't psychically hurt others and/or force their beliefs on other people. Now religious people can still preach and tell people that they are going to Hell, as that does not psychically hurt anyone and they aren't forcing you to believe what they believe. But I think you get the idea.
DudeStop says2014-02-20T20:13:00.2495545-06:00
Stalin, mate, it's over.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-20T20:14:17.8905394-06:00
DudeStop says2014-02-20T20:26:21.6694828-06:00
Let's start a new war! Who's up next?!
Romanii says2014-02-21T19:12:20.0795926-06:00
Oy Rebel, I still want that evolution debate!
DudeStop says2014-02-21T19:14:51.1811926-06:00
Dude, Stop noob sniping...
Romanii says2014-02-22T17:47:45.2984348-06:00
@StopDude: lol... Not trying to noob snipe.... Just trying destroy their arguments against evolution so that they might at least reconsider.
abyteofbrain says2014-02-22T18:37:26.0634966-06:00
I guarantee, if you ever debate me, you WILL ignore some of my arguments. How do you expect to cause someone else to reconsider their core beliefs, if you won't reconsider your own? Your statement makes it clear that you won't.
DudeStop says2014-02-22T19:03:00.2792980-06:00
Who, me?
abyteofbrain says2014-02-22T19:05:16.4048980-06:00
DudeStop says2014-02-22T19:14:07.4571193-06:00
Romanii says2014-02-22T21:59:57.8683691-06:00
I have considered many different perspectives, including that of atheism and Christian fundamentalism. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, but I find that they also have their own flaws.
DudeStop says2014-02-22T23:26:26.5336119-06:00
But now you LOATH fundamentalism. I'm not sure about atheism, but you dislike AntiTheism... While I love every religion and deem it a gift to even have belief...
abyteofbrain says2014-02-23T10:17:04.2615785-06:00
I'm guessing that your mind isn't as open as you think. It would be very unusual for someone to not believe the core beliefs that they were taught when the were young.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-23T13:17:08.8545637-06:00
I was taught Christianity and also Judaism at a very young age; I never believed any of it. I was Agnostic my whole young life, and now I'm an Atheist. It really seems like it's you who doesn't really have an open mind. After seeing your profile I can tell that you're already typically Christian, someone who forces their beliefs on others, like a selfish evil person.
abyteofbrain says2014-02-23T16:01:26.0609846-06:00
I am far from a typical Christian. I knew that someone would say what you have. The truth is, you weren't really taught Christianity. Maybe churchianity, but not Christianity. Your parents probably went to church, though probably never put much effort into teaching you Christianity, because they themselves may not have even been Christians. You probably went to a school in which you were taught atheism, evolutionism, and probably more conflicting ideas. That is why you became agnostic. You then probably decided that you could know the truth, because you were tired of the mental flatness of agnosticism. If you think I'm wrong, perhaps I should test your knowledge of Christianity. Also I am not capable of "forcing" my beliefs on anyone. I believe that everyone has a mind of their own (at least after childhood), and can choose to ignore or accept it. I will sate many of my beliefs as absolute truth, because I believe them to be true. I do not have beliefs that I don't believe to be true.
abyteofbrain says2014-02-23T16:02:37.4791580-06:00
... Or perhaps school taught you to be agnostic, as they do to kids today.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-23T16:18:55.8980495-06:00
School does not teach atheism nor agnosticism, not sure where you're getting that from. Sorry but my parents allowed me to think on my own, they didn't force my to become a Christian or a Jew. I was always agnostic, I never believed in Santa Clause (nor did I say he wasn't real, just didn't know when I was little) nor did I believe in God. Unlike you, I don't get fooled easily. Yes you are a typical Christian, a brainwashed kid who thinks he knows the truth, but sadly doesn't. Let me ask you, have you ever been to a public school? Are you forced to go to church? Do your parents only talk about Jesus and God? Did your parents tell you that Jesus/God loved you everyday when you were little?
SNP1 says2014-02-23T16:23:44.3894829-06:00
AbyteofbrainL Do I see the no true scotsman fallacy? Yes I do.
abyteofbrain says2014-02-23T18:17:40.4478981-06:00
Yeah, now that you point it out, I do, SNP1. I also see a straw man and ad-homenem. StalinMario: You are now saying that your parents didn't even teach you what to believe, which only further shows my point. Schools (recently) taught atheistic-evolution, and now teach agnostic or unitarian evolution. They obviously do. When you were in school, I doubt that you can honestly say that your teachers taught you there was a god, but probably the contrary. Schools do teach some sort of religion, even if it's only implied atheism. You do not know me even close to enough to know how typical of a Christian I am, just as I don't know you even close to enough to know how typical of an atheist you are. I can say this though: I do not have enough faith to be an atheist (although I'm sure I would if I was raised that way).
SNP1 says2014-02-23T18:50:42.5563538-06:00
Abyteofbrain: YOU were using the no true scotsman fallacy... There also has not been ad hominem oh Stalin_Mario's part as everything has been about the subject of the debate between you, and ad hominem is when you use insults as your entire point instead of addressing the issue. Learn your logical fallacies.
abyteofbrain says2014-02-23T20:51:35.7073347-06:00
How was I using the falacy?
abyteofbrain says2014-02-23T20:52:29.0759610-06:00
StalinMario: I'm currently having issues which are preventing me from responding to your message. I'll try again later.
abyteofbrain says2014-02-23T20:53:54.1743510-06:00
Ad homenem is using insults as reasons do disregard the arguer's statement.
abyteofbrain says2014-02-23T20:55:31.9707510-06:00
My point was that he is not an exception from what I said.
Stalin_Mario says2014-02-23T21:04:11.3763490-06:00
Oh trust me I know, I have been getting a ton of error messages as well. Hopefully Debate.Org fixes them soon.
SNP1 says2014-02-23T21:09:56.2118793-06:00
Your use of the no true scotsman fallacy, "The truth is, you weren't really taught Christianity. Maybe churchianity, but not Christianity. Your parents probably went to church, though probably never put much effort into teaching you Christianity, because they themselves may not have even been Christians." How is it the fallacy? You say that his parents must not have been REAL Christians when there is no evidence to say they were not.
abyteofbrain says2014-02-23T21:12:07.0334793-06:00
I did not say that, I said that they may not have been.
SNP1 says2014-02-23T21:20:46.2928169-06:00
Yet you used it as your entire argument in that comment. If you used that and something else it would not have been a no true scotsman.
abyteofbrain says2014-02-23T22:20:11.1710000-06:00
I may neot have made it clear, but I was saying that his parents may not have taught him any or much about Christianity, but schoolls had most of his time, and thus, the most effect on his beliefs. I appologize, I'm not very good at getting my point accross.
SNP1 says2014-02-23T22:28:27.7769976-06:00
Schools are secular, they teach neither theism or atheism. Your point is moot.
abyteofbrain says2014-02-23T22:52:57.0201786-06:00
They do. Like I said before, they all teach some sort of religion, regardless of weather or not they try to. Modern public schools teach mostly agnosticism or unitarianism, by saying that whatever anyone else believes is ok, so long as they don't "force" their views on others. This doesn't make sense (considering what they really mean by that), and logically leads to agnosticism. Some teachers will teach new age. Any religion, other than Christianity, may be taught somewhat in public schools. Teachers (especially of science), frequently teach the absence of a god.
abyteofbrain says2014-02-23T22:54:13.1085747-06:00
Oh, not just Christianity, but also Judaism.
SNP1 says2014-02-23T22:59:01.7809491-06:00
You realize that is 100% wrong, right? Schools are not allowed to teach ANY religion except about its impact on history, the philosophy behind it, the literature, etc. More classes teach Christianity than anything (History, philosophy, English, etc.). Science classes are not allowed to teach the "absence of god" they teach SCIENCE, scientific theories, laws, etc. Schools lean more towards Christianity than any religion, but the ultimate goal is secularism.
abyteofbrain says2014-02-23T23:12:16.9927465-06:00
"You realize that is 100% wrong, right?" You must be getting tired. Technically, they are allowed to, though the public frowns upon it, and the school board discourages it. They do teach their opinions about religion. I've seen it firsthand.
SNP1 says2014-02-23T23:16:17.0143465-06:00
And those that do can easily lose their job (do you live in the US?), so they usually do not. The only times they are allowed to discuss religion is if they do it secularly and when appropriate. I have seen it first hand as well, and the only religion I see getting pushed that does not happen secularly or when appropriate is Christianity.
abyteofbrain says2014-02-25T15:05:45.5869457-06:00
I've seen lots of new age being pushed. Perhaps you don't notice some of the more subtle religious statements.
DudeStop says2014-02-25T17:47:54.0127003-06:00
I've seen a science teacher express his opinion on how the universe came to be without god...
SNP1 says2014-02-25T18:21:15.2472439-06:00
DudeStop, was it an opinion or a theory? And did he say the word god?
LittleBallofHATE says2014-03-27T23:55:57.4301249-05:00
The best evidence for Gods existence, is for Christians to show the love of Christ towards others.
abyteofbrain says2014-03-28T16:08:29.7946490-05:00
Sorry dude, but there are a ton of unloving Christians.
LittleBallofHATE says2014-03-28T16:16:14.8685051-05:00
Sorry dude. Just because someone claims to be a Christian, doesn't make it true. The Bible says that people will know you're a Christian by your love. If a person does not have love, they do not have Christ.
etherealvoyager says2014-03-31T05:45:51.6118964-05:00
I'm really astonished that people are still arguing about this.
abyteofbrain says2014-03-31T15:55:36.9550474-05:00
I know, don't get me started on that one. Probably less than 20% of acclaimed Christians truly are. Some people are Christians, but express little love, I'm one of those myself (though not an extreme example).
Fanath says2014-04-10T19:33:02.1767729-05:00
I think the exact statistic is about 33%.
ECLP says2014-05-16T12:17:17.6969056-05:00
God has given me a gift of sheer luck i have had 8 near death experiences along with 5 that should have dropped me on the spot and encounters that should have ended my life and yet so far im still in teh best condition i can be in and still gaining more luck by the day i also should have been run over 3 times and every time i either got forced out of the way or they missed me
ArcTImes says2014-05-16T12:30:11.2109991-05:00
@ECLP Alive... Exactly like the other 7 billion people of the world. It's sad tho, when a person is all fine and then BAM, he/she dies and is not able to talk about his version of the story.
SonOfMan13 says2014-05-23T14:16:54.6826956-05:00
The argument is why all humans all over the world ask this question ??
Fanath says2014-06-02T20:38:34.9397382-05:00
Who wants to start a war???
Your_Conscience says2014-06-03T13:58:52.7246687-05:00
It seems to make the most logical sense
ben671176 says2014-07-24T15:22:09.1980481-05:00
One day. . . Just one day, god, please, just listen to my prayer and prove to humans that you exist! Amen.
Momergil says2014-09-07T21:13:27.2043258-05:00
Best argument for God's existence that I know resumed: 1) If there are good reasons to think that God exists and there are no good reasons to think that God does not exist, then it's reasonable to conclude that God exists. 2) There are good reasons to think that God exists 2-1) From personal experience to understanding that God do provide a better explanation for the whole world's existence and existence "as such"; bad to state here 3) There are no good reasons to think that God does not exists. 3-1) Difficult to state here, but in my time as researcher of Christian Apologetics I learned something like 90 arguments against God existence and, with the exception of two of them that I didn't had the intellectual resources to evaluate (e.G. Quentin Smith's Cosmological argument against God and another I don't remember), none of them provided good reasons to think that God doesn't exist (either they were fallacious, or their premises were undefensable, or they would attack a very particular understanding of what/how God is and not the hole concept, that is, all possible understandings of God) 4) Therefore, it's reasonable to conclude that God exists.
OutsideYourBox says2014-10-15T12:58:07.4325003-05:00
Intelligent design
BblackkBbirdd says2014-10-15T12:59:18.8149874-05:00
...Is terrible
duckee says2014-11-13T14:06:50.6847957-06:00
The cool thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.
hammycakes says2015-04-09T16:06:45.6901396-05:00
I think the bible is a real history book. I believe alot of things happened that is explained in the bible, but I also believe that a human being cannot touch someone and heal them. And Jesus was a human being. From Genesis: "Then God said 'Let US make man in OUR image, in OUR likeness......" Who is "US" and who is he referring to as "OUR"? And in Ezekiel: "I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north-an immense cloud with flashing lightening and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was that of a man, but each of them had four faces and four wings. Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. Under their wings on their four sides they had the hands of a man. All four of them had faces and wings, and their wings touched one another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved. Their faces........." I recall a character in the cartoon "He-man" that had several faces. Come on now, four, four-faced beings, with two sets of wings, and wheels intersecting wheels are following them around? It sounds like someone mistook something for something else to me. I am leaning toward the fact that there is some sort of universal being or beings. But not God as he is explained in the bible.
hammycakes says2015-04-09T16:20:42.6044526-05:00
Why would God mention other gods if there weren't any?
hammycakes says2015-04-09T16:45:05.6847159-05:00
OK...If everything came from God. Where did God come from? Don't just say "he just was" either. I believe God is an excuse for people who NEED to know the supposed "reason" for existance. Some people could not handle the fact of life itself and needed a reason. I would like to know why we are here and how we really got here too. But I don't believe God waved his hand and magically made things.
hammycakes says2015-04-09T16:46:14.2518025-05:00
This is one of my fave things to argue about!!! Someone please continue....... (happy face)
DI0GENES says2015-04-22T21:06:28.7495334-05:00
You didn't have an other category. Here's what I think. There is absolutely no evidence that abiogenesis ever happened. In order for this to happen, nature would be required to create an enormous amount of information. Something that is not possible, based on everything we know about information theory. Information has an existence independent of the physical universe. Matter cannot create that which is immaterial. Information requires intelligence in order to exist. So were did the massive amount of information for the first living organism come from? There is only one answer. It came from a intelligent mind. Just like all information does.
Cowboy0108 says2015-05-14T23:17:18.3777968-05:00
Pascal's Wager is still my favorite.
deadmanramsey says2015-06-22T02:48:09.3212519-05:00
If argument for a designer is so poor then retreat to a better explanation that renders it obsolete. Prove that random chance alone can account for everything.
Varrack says2015-06-22T10:58:24.4073997-05:00
Jeez. No way this poll actually reflects the membership of the site.
B0HICA says2015-06-26T04:26:48.3987529-05:00
You forgot the best argument. Prophecy. Regardless of what some say, the Bible has a 100 percent track record in this department. Those who say different have a vested interest in it not being true, or are simply too lazy to do the research necessary to determine the truth. You cannot show me one prophecy that has not been fulfilled.
truthseeker777 says2015-10-09T11:49:42.2197362Z
God was a man. Otherwise there wouldn't be an "Us". Think about it; How do you get your kids? Logically speaking that is!
Mister_Man says2015-10-09T23:44:56.5604336Z
@Truthseeker - I don't think that's really an argument for the existence of God. At the very least, it's an argument for whether or not he would be male, if he existed, but that doesn't prove he exists to begin with.
mewepee says2015-12-09T19:04:14.5356967Z
God is the best dont forget it you snobs
piderz0N says2016-02-23T02:58:06.2056015Z
Jenae.ross says2016-10-01T16:12:44.4750136Z
I has a great argument proving God is real. If anyone wants it, shoot me a message
KookiesAndKream says2016-10-13T06:38:05.6570041Z
1) Kalam's cosmological argument 2) Fine tuned universe 3) The complexity of Molecular machines 4) Can't explain the origin of life in a naturalistic way 5) The evidence of consciousness - Humans have not only a body but a soul. Quote 1) Oxford University professor Sir Charles Sherrington, a nobel prize winner 'for me now, the only reality is the human soul'. 2) Nobel laureate John C. Eccles 'I am constrained, to believe that there is what we might call a supernatural origin of my unique self-conscious mind or unique selfhood or soul.'
KookiesAndKream says2016-10-13T06:39:32.8771632Z
1) Kalam's cosmological argument 2) Fine tuned universe 3) The complexity of Molecular machines 4) Can't explain the origin of life in a naturalistic way 5) The evidence of consciousness - Humans have not only a body but a soul. Quote 1) Oxford University professor Sir Charles Sherrington, a nobel prize winner 'for me now, the only reality is the human soul'. 2) Nobel laureate John C. Eccles 'I am constrained, to believe that there is what we might call a supernatural origin of my unique self-conscious mind or unique selfhood or soul.'
KookiesAndKream says2016-10-13T06:41:16.3526265Z
1) Kalam's cosmological argument 2) Fine tuned universe 3) The complexity of Molecular machines 4) Can't explain the origin of life in a naturalistic way 5) The evidence of consciousness - Humans have not only a body but a soul. Quote 1) Oxford University professor Sir Charles Sherrington, a nobel prize winner 'for me now, the only reality is the human soul'. 2) Nobel laureate John C. Eccles 'I am constrained, to believe that there is what we might call a supernatural origin of my unique self-conscious mind or unique selfhood or soul.'
Face-of-the-deep says2016-10-19T05:16:41.9990858Z
As usual, an unenlightened person uses the God word, without defining what in Hell they are trying to describing.
Anyara says2018-01-05T21:07:39.8378045Z
Those are some terribly-made summaries.
caitllynb says2018-07-12T05:11:25.1244290Z
God is essentially in a state of a similar instance to Shrodinger's cat (may have to Google it but yeah). Basically we will never be able to know until we die and we either see ourselves at the gates of heaven or that's just it.

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